efficient cows

[cowman]

I try to keep my cows in that 1400 lb. range. Now I will admit I have some bigger, but few smaller. Even with introducing a lot of Angus genetics the last several years, they don't seem to be shrinking all that much...might be those darned 2300 lb. Angus two year old bulls!
Now I don't go out and count how many bites of hay each cow gets, so maybe those bigger cows are robbing the smaller ones or something, but they all have about the same condition?
Anyway...I have one 11 year old cow who can really ring the bell. Half Char, half hereford. Has had one heifer in her life and always calves right at the start. Raises one hell of a calf every year and never helped her. Had about a 130 lb calf last week and he is stout!
I would suspect this cow is close to 1600 lb.
The point here is: It isn't how big the cow is, but what has she done for you lately?
Now maybe I am deluded or something, but this cow gives me a healthy check every fall and if she is robbing the other cows of feed, well that is just too bad for them! I actually think if I could have a whole herd as good as her I would be happy!
I must be insane for wanting these big stout cows that actually make money.

[cowman]

cowman, I doubt that she is robbing other cows, likely the smaller cows don't eat quite as much !!!

[cswilson]

Well every rancher should have one good rabbit they can pull out of the hat now shouldn't they lol. I'm lucky I've never suffered from cow size envy or I got the biggest calf syndrome-we just poke along out here in the wasties of Saskatchewan no oil wells to dodge or housing complexes to worry about. We did the early calving big calf thing-were good enough at it to be in a national breed add in fact-but I wouldn't go back there for all the prosperity bonuses in Alberta.

[cowman]

Believe it or not I have a lot of "small good rabbits" to pull out of the hat too! This cow is good, but not my best cow...but definitely in the top ten percent.

[PureCountry]

The truth of it is cowman, you do not know if she's a profitable cow or not. If you don't know exactly how much she consumes, you do not know - just as I don't know how much mine eat. But the averages will say that @ 1600lbs X 2-2.5% MINIMUM consumption, she eats 32-40lbs per day.

I have a cow just like that. Black blaze face Angus crossed with something, and has a 120 pounder every year no matter what she's bred to - even Galloway. I'll never keep a daughter out of her, b/c of the birth weights, even though she weans off a heavy calf every year.

Bottom line, I don't know how much she makes us. That Net Feed Efficiency thing is going to be extremely valuable info in the not-so-distant future. B/c 10lbs of feed per day between the 1200lb cow and the 1600lb cow, @ 3cents per day is $.30 X 150 days = $45. 200 days feeding makes it $60 difference. So if the 1200lb cow can push the scales down with her calf just as far, she's gonna cost less to maintain. The economic experts say that for every dollar you gain in sales, it only equates to 10 cents profit. For every dollar you save in cost-cutting management, it equates equally into one dollar of profit.

[grassfarmer]

I'm not so convinced about the Net feed efficiency tests purecountry. At the moment they are being used to identify the most efficient convertors in a feedlot situation. That is maybe not the cattle that will perform on grass if you plan to rear the females for cows. I would like to see the young bulls that are being identified through this testing proven through their daughters in a pasture situation. Of course there isn't an easy way to do that as measuring consumption on pasture is more complex than sticking buckets of feed in front of them in a feedlot. Arguably you could trial daughters on harvested forage in a confined feeding environment but that's not quite the same. You could probably breed a great cow that was the most efficient converter of harvested forage - but would she be the best grazer or would she have sore feet and poor foraging instinct?
I know many British dairy farms imported Canadian Holstein genetics to access their high yield potential - unfortunately because these were confinement developed genetics used to having their feed hauled to them they didn't perform so well when they were expected to live and graze outside in a wet climate. Then the producers realised why they use jersey x holsteins in New Zealand!
I think it's great that our knowledge of science doesn't allow us to control every aspect of cattle production - imagine the mess we would be in if we could!

[cowman]

You are right Purecountry, I have no clue how much she eats. All I know is she brings in a big heavy steer every year that is acceptable to the market?
I am sure there are acceptable 1200 lb. cows that can bring in a big calf? As I pointed out I actually strive for a 1400 lb. cow as that seems to be the optimum for this area.
I'm not all convinced that retaining ownership of calves is all that profitable? I'm usually close to half and half...sell the biggest steers off the cow, feed and grass the smaller steers and heifers, keep the big heifers for replacements. I still believe I make the most money on those big fall calves sold off the cow? It sure is a lot easier...and every year easier looks better!
I rely on a lot of cheap feed. Good straw, rained on hay, letting them clean up the stubble and hayland. My cows are not fat by any means come spring...not at 22 lbs. of hay a day plus all the straw they desire.
I believe I run a fairly tight ship? Maybe I need to go with the farmers son method of economics? Count all the beans at the end of the day and see if there is a profit or loss! Then I'd be okay.

[blackjack]

...well our farm and ranch philosophy is pretty much the same as cowmans...even though we retain ownership of all our calves as well as buy some... we to wonder sometimes if we should sell our heavy end of the steers in the fall because it seems the return on feeding margins as shrunk considerably in the last 4 years... in 00 and 01 we were selling grass yearlings that averaged over 1200... the past 4 years whether it was because of drought or bse we averaged just over 900 and that is including govt payouts...before in days when there was the crow subsidy farms like ours would switch to growing a bit more grain when cattle prices declined but the last few as the margins have shrunk...we have just added more cattle...whether it was the right thing to do or not in my opinion government policys will effect us more and more into the future and only time will tell how a larger canadian cattle herd will effect us all... going back to the topic of having the most efficient cow nature will allow only so many cows per quarter and from what i see alot of operations are maxed out already and personally i think the returns are not sufficient enough if the current trend continues ...i guess i'll just have to suck it up now hey cswilson...lol...

[Willowcreek]

Speaking of efficient cattle- apparently there is becoming more and more of a demand for that type of cattle...Ohlde Cattle Company just had their bull sale and 88 bulls averaged over $6100---Top bull sold for $52,000....

[cowman]

blackjack: The death of the CROW changed a whole lot of things! It was probably the most significant change in western agriculture? Hats off to our useless government for screwing us on that one!
Pre-dead CROW Canada was a net importer of beef, now every Tom Dick and Harry got into the cow business! BSE wouldn't have been the disaster it was if they hadn't killed the CROW?
When the CROW died a lot of good grain land went into grass.