Can you live on this???

[cswilson]

Well some people on here have to figure out whining never grew any grass-be interesting if our Alberta buddies took the oil field revenue and inflated land values out of their net worth statements-instant transformation for what it's like to ranch one province east-ohh and the extra BSE collection money-prosperity bonuses etc. I'm betting alot even if they sold out and moved to cheaper land would still have trouble making money-there's lots of expatriot Albertans moving back after trying to ranch here.

[cswilson]

cswilson, it seems that your posts of late are intent on aiming volleys at the Alberta cattle producer, Alberta
oil, jobs in the oilpatch etc.

I don't want to start a border war on this site but I can guarantee you there would be a lot of hungry people across this country if it weren't for the activity in the Alberta oil patch right now. The opportunities for people from other provinces to become 'rig pigs' as you called them and in doing so help to keep the banker from forclosing on their farm in Sask., and in many cases putting food on the table for their families in the maritimes.

I know of many Sask. farm boys that work on rigs in AB., during the off season on the farm and are damn glad to have the opportunity to make a good dollar.Others work on Seismic crews all winter in AB, then head back to put the crop in come spring. Maybe you could ask them what they think of Alberta's oil patch !!!

If people in the cattle industry can't get along, then how in hell will we be a united group and get the message across to governments that the entire agricultural industry is in crisis.

[cswilson]

I just sick of the Alberta crybaby's sitting on their high priced land-with a high paying job-posting away with all their doom and gloom about thre ranching business when they don't even make a living off it.Cowman would bitch if they hung him with a new rope for crying out loud.There's guys like that up in this country sit on their butt and cry the blues.You can take a calculator and make ranching as good or bad as you want to make it-trust me I get enough guff from the Alberta boys when I go west I don't mind handing some back out. If your in the best place in the world to ranch and you can't make a living-maybe your in the wrong business.

[cswilson]

cswilson maybe you hang around with the wrong Alberta boys !!!! I don't know too many ranchers that work in the oil patch that have any spare time to sit on their butt and whine !!!

[topper]

I can see more and more friction these days between Alberta cattlemen and producers in the rest of the country. I guess anytime the money gets concentrated in one part of the country like it is now there is bound to be hard feelings. Now I personnally wouldn't trade all the oil money in Alberta for the relatively laid back life we live in the eastern prairies. Most of my neighbors can still get by raising cattle with little or no help from the government and few have off farm jobs. It is however getting tougher when the hired man wants twenty five bucks an hour or else he will head to the oil patch. I guess what I'm trying to say is I can see where cswilson's attitudes are coming from because there are many in these parts with the same feelings.

[cowman]

Not quite sure why I am "whining" when I point out that for the majority of producers cheap calves don't work or that to survive you need some sort of reasonable return on your investment? Or if I have an opinion why a certain type of cow won't work for me? I guess everyone has to toe the line on these type of questions and go with the self proclaimed experts on here?
I also find it ironic that people like to bash anyone who supplements their income with anything beside good old down to earth agriculture...while running a seperate business on the side!
Hey kids cost money. They need all these things like recreation, good dental care, an education! When I was young the figure was $100,000 by the time you got them through 4 years of post secondary education? I suspect it is a lot higher now.

[cowman]

cowman, most farm kids in this community have either worked at summer jobs through high school, saved their 4-H steer money, gotten scholarships or a combination of the above to put themselves through their four years of post secondary education with very little help from Dad and Mom.
As far as anyone being envious of Albera ranchers wealth and opportunities I will put a different slant on one of the 10 Commandments on this beautiful Easter Sunday morning.

'Thous shalt not covet thy neighbours wife, NOR HIS OIL REVENUE or off farm income'.

If an individual is content with thier one life the should not feel the need to be envious of anyone elses !!

[roly]

Hello KPB
Is this include food TV personal living costs and eny loans

[kpb]

roly, all those things have to be taken off the net figure, no doubt. Also any land payments you might have to make.

At the risk of being told I'm whining, I'd like to say that the numbers I post don't come out of thin air or from black magic. The cost numbers I used weren't my own--they were an average of three guys who post here and look to have a good degree of cow experience. And if you don't like the numbers I used for revenue, than use your own price assumptions.

To say that you can make these numbers say any old thing you want to prove a point is absurd. The numbers don't lie--it's just simple math. I make my living, and support my family, just through the ranch. No off-farm job, no off-farm income, my wife doesn't work, we have five kids, one of whom has left home and another who is here only during the summer (he plays junior hockey in the winter).

Yes I've been lucky with my Alberta land going up in value. But that doesn't help my cash flow unless I sell it. So what I'm trying to do with these posts is find a way for all of us "serious" producers to make a decent living. Like grassfarmer I do believe it can be done.

Is that whining? Geez, I don't make up the numbers--they're real, folks, whether you want to admit it or not. You know if you want to just keep on doing what you're doing, without thinking about where you are, than some day reality is going to come up and bite you in the butt.

kpb

[kpb]

topper, there are many businesses in Alberta, the agricultural industry included that are having problems accessing good help due to the fact they must compete with wages paid by the petroleum industry.
For the worker that is a good thing, and more power to them.
It is too bad if people are begrudging others the opportunity to make a good living while the opportunities exist.

Comments like 'rigpig Daddy's, were uncalled for and certainly don't take into consideration that those "Daddy's" likely are paying a whack of income tax, buying agricultural products, taking their kids to MacDonalds ( when they get a weekend off that is !), and supporting the agricultural industry in a round about way.

Attitudes need to change between urban and rural but for godsakes if rural people are going to envy one another and stoop to namecalling then perhaps our industry doesn't deserve the support of our fellow Canadians.