Oil field stigma

[cowman]

Lately I've been getting bashed a bit on here for having interests in the oil field. I never was forced into the oil field. Never needed to do it to survive.
In fact I just sort of fell into it...really enjoyed it...really enjoyed the money!
In my agriculture ventures I never posted a loss. Never collected CAIS. Never had crop insurance.
Could I have lived on my Ag income? Probably...depends how you define living? Some people like to have "things", "security", "have their children take over"...some don't consider those thing necessary? Not saying either way is right...just whatever works for you?
I am at the point where I have the best of both worlds...or so I believe! I have a child taking over, I enjoy my life, and I can look forward to a comfortable retirement with the assurance that my family will have a landbase and business totally debt free! That works for me. Just my opinion.

[Vader]

cowman, I hate to see anyone bashed for the career path they have chosen. My family are all working in th oil industry but that isn't why I make the above comment, I would feel just as concerned if negative comments were being made about any other industry.

I know what a challenge it is to make ends meet and try to provide the extras for ones family on a farm income, but if that was my chosen way of life then I would not begrudge anyone else for the income they derive from any source.

All to often lately Albertans are the target of comments about the industry that fuels the economy of this province, but if those who are envious would take a look in their own backyard they may see industries that are contributing a significant amount to their own economy, and maybe even be able to take advantage of those industries to bring in a little off farm income themselves.

[Horse]

Since when did off farm income become an agri enterprize I think if you make your money in the OIL biz then that is your trade not the fact you have a cow to make you feel good.
Cowman I dont think I am atacking you what I am trying to point out is that we in the agri biz have a lot of outside influances that have a detremental efect to our ability to make a living from the farm that other industrys would not tolerate, sure if you have enough money or influance you can get into any business but I think farming for now at least is unique.

[Horse]

Emeral please tell me what the benifits are to the average farmer beyond posible surface lease money , the heavy trafic ruins more roads than they repair they put in roads that drain wetlands IE timeau area 10 yr ago before oil you couldnt get around in the summer as it was all swamp and muskeg now it is dry and oil roads everywhere causing dreanage or the Fort Assiniboine sand hills are now full of methane leases ,
I am now trying to be derouitory but am sincerly intrested in the enviroment ,and if that was to cut into some of these $1200/ day men pay well to bad so sad.

[Horse]

Horse, I am very familiar with the Fort Assiniboine area. If Woodlands County were not a resource based municipality and have been willing to inject mega tax dollars into the hamlet of Fort Assiniboine I really doubt if it would be much more than a whistle stop today.

There have been lots sold within the hamlet, some new homes, an excellent fire department which is funded by the county ( resource tax assessment at work horse).

The Fort Museum is one of the best museums in rural Alberta, and it has received numerous provincial and county grants to continue to operate and expand.

Woodlands county provides excellent service to the residents, snow removal, road maintenance, and emergency services, people services such as seniors housing, libraries etc., this is possible due to the industrial and machinery and equipment assessment the county has, not to mention mills such as Blue Ridge Lumber etc. I realize that you live in Barrhead County where there isn't the resource base, but I am sure that the county has received grants from the province for road upgrades, waste water lagoons in hamlets, etc. which is possible because of the resource based income the province has.You have a provincial subsidized ambulance service an excellent hospital, provincially subsidized seniors lodges and self contained units in the town of Barrhead. Maybe you aren't ready to move in there at this point in time but they are still funded in part by the province, and I might at that the Seniors Lodge Assistance program in Alberta is the only one of its kind in Canada.

I could go on and on, but to say that the farmer gets nothing is again the cup half full mind set that some folks consider whining.

[Horse]

So you are telling me without oil revenue we wouldnt have any of those things .
Strange it seems to me we had most if not all of those when oil was 12$ and the oil workers were whining. The Hospial was built in about 76 the seniors lodge was here befor that and yes they have built on to some of those things such as seniors apt at 1200$ per mo and there is more paved roads a new areana that will have to be paid for through taxes,but back to the original question where in all of this did the farmers gain my taxes went from 150/mo to 1400 on my origonal 3 1/4s and how about all the user fees we have that we didnt, I think we are still sucking a hind tit just as others have pointed out with oil lease rent.
As far as half full I guess it is easier to look at a half full glass of champagne than it is to look at a half full glass of beer.

[Horse]

Well horse, I don't have champagne tastes so hopefully you aren't referring to me, and I don't touch beer either so guess my glass must be totally empty !!!

I have spent countless hours explaining to constituents the answer to many of the questions you are asking when I was a municipal councillor. Even though your hospital was built many years ago, it has received upgrades and likely new equipment, highly trained nurses etc. The budget for health care comes from the provincial government,so in part it is your tax dollars but not your property tax that funds it.

If you check past tax notices you will find that your assessment has gone up considerably over the years which is one of the key reasons for your property tax increase. It means, horse, that your land is worth more than it was ages ago !!! Your county would likely be able to operate on a lower mill rate it it had more resource assessment, which might lower your taxes. If your arena is paid for soley by property taxes then it is likely one of the very few in Alberta that is. Other municipalities are getting grants left and right for sports facilities !!

Seems to me that the last time I was in Barrhead they were paving streets, putting in water and sewer lines etc. I would be willing to bet that government grant monies paid a huge chunk of it.

And if you live near Fort Assiniboine who in heck keeps the ferry going ????

Is it the county, the province or both ? I know fairly large farming operations that use that ferry continuously to haul feed etc.,

You and I look at things a lot differently horse. I realize that the oil industry is the engine that fuels the Alberta economy. Having said that I also realize that the enviromnent is extremely important and people are the most important. We have a good way of life here in Alberta, some make more money than others, live in fancier houses etc., but all in all, there's no place like it. Now, its home to me, and that's likely why I think that way, home, no matter where it is, is always the best place on earth.

[blackjack]

... i remember listening to a talk show out of edmonton called the bill and bill show...the callers would call and ask the host how they were feeling... the host would say that he felt like a retired mla living in barrhead...horse if i remember right they said the streets were all paved with black gold...lol

[cowman]

I don't get all bent out of shape by being called a rig pig, because I'm not. Haven't worked on any rig since I was a kid! In fact oil field is only a part of what I do, probably half, the rest individual farmers, CPR, dept of highways, and various municipalities! And guess what they all pay the same rate...well so much for the bloated oil field...in fact CPR is the most generous I've found!
Maybe I shouldn't have added "back to nature" to the bright light comment? In my opinion anyone who is so dumb to let his cows graze tansy isn't overly bright?...and I guess if he was "conventional" he would have sprayed it out? It was also amazing how the old environmental convictions went right out the door...when he started losing money...but whatever!
Treehugger....is that derogatory? There actually are people who hug trees! Gerry Spence(lawyer who defended Karen Silkwood) actually admits he does...and he is a person I sure can respect!

[cowman]

cowman, the term rigpig went with out with the dodo bird around here. Folks consider it a derogatory term and don't use it.
At one time the fanciest hotel in town would not rent rooms to rig workers....now every hotel is full and booked a year in advance by oil companies and drilling companies so that any crew that doesn't have an onsite camp has a place to stay !!!

[Horse]

Emerald you were the one that brought up the glass 1/2 full so what you put in it is your business.
You still didnt address the fact that most of what we have was here before the big oil money and to hear you tell it it will all be gone without the oil to suport it I think that is very narrow minded if we were not paying this high wage we could have a lot of things but labour is causing the prices to rise.
Yes Bill and Bill liked to give Ken Kowalski hell and rightly so as he was very high in the gov that almost gave the country away, but we got the paddle dam but down south they got the three rivers dam at a hell of a lot more cost and who knows what all.
A lot of the things you mention are in the town of barrhead still dont see where that is of great benifit to the farmers my local roads are poorer now than before the oil activity came albeit in small form , our roads were built by piling bush down the middle of the road and then building up over top with dirt and they have worked for 40yr or more until you start hauling B.Trains over them dayly they just wont stand that heavy trafic and guess who will get to pay for rebuilding at probably 100,000/mi sure the gov throws in some money but they took some money from our pockets also.

[Horse]

As I said horse, you and I look at things differently.

If your county isn't maintaining the road to the same standard it did before you had oil activity, why aren't you calling your councillor, or the public works supervisor and asking why ???

You mentioned a grazing lease, then recently you mentioned oil revenue and negotiating leases, so I don't really think the oil money has totally passed you by !!!

I guess we could go back to the days of corduroy roads, and using a fresno to build them, but I for one, don't really want to regress.

I can remember what the roads were like coming from Swan Hills home in the 1960's, and they are one hell of a lot better up in the Fort Assiniboine/Barrhead area now, so something must be progressing !!!

[cowman]

I think that type of road building was fairly standard in much of the province, Horse? In the spring the willows still out in places around here!
Those roads were built for horses and wagons or maybe Model As, but have a hard time with B-trains, heavy rigs and manure trucks!
Actually some of these lighter coalbed rigs can move even when the road bans are on!
We have a lot of oil field activity in my area. The people destroying the roads
are seldom the rigs but silage trucks and heavy hog manure trucks/wagons! The oil companies post a bond...not so the feedlot or hog barn! When the rig is moving they have a private grader out...when the silage trucks are rolling the county grader is out...guess on who's dime?
Not real sure about this but I believe the money the county gets from the oil activity pays more than the total maitenance budget for operations in the county!

[cowman]

In this county any damage done by industry is paid for by industry, this includes gravel and grader time. Not only that, but if there is any kind of industry haul that creates excess dust they are required to have a water truck available.
I would suggest that most counties have these requirements, if Barrhead County doesn't then perhaps the county taxpayers should demand that they do.

[Horse]

Yes I have a 2 oil leases on owned land I dont have any crown leases BUT you still didnt answer the question would we not have these things if we didnt have oil revenue, as for maintaining the roads sure they grade the top but it is the road bed that gets pushed out into the ditch thats where the damage is done.