Cost of Living

[kato]

There are real costs to raising a family, then there are the frills. I see families that do things together, are involved in 4-H, hockey, little league and those things require some cash but mainly committment from parents. In the long run, the kids that I know that have been involved with their family in activities seem to be well adjusted,and more mature for their ages than ones that have had dollars thrown at them and not the quality time they need.

[kato]

There is no better investment than time spent with the kids.

[PureCountry]

We have 2 boys - 2.5 and almost 1. We have a 9 year old daughter from my first marriage, who stays with us part time. The wife and I have had many discussions about having more kids. I want lots, she's not so sure. We've agreed on at least one more, but the issue of Cost of Living always is at the forefront.

We know we are going to have to put in a BIG garden to keep the grocery bill to a minimum. I plan on milking our Brown Swiss, and that'll help with store-bought crap being $4-something a jug. When snack time comes around, our kids have veggies or fruit, so the garden will help alot. Our friends have lots of kids and snack time for them means junk food - and that stuff is bloody expensive.

I take home $2600-3000/month, net after taxes, and work in town, a 5 mile drive. We keep things down and really stick to a budget, and thank goodness my wife is as good as she is with that, or we'd be hooped.

[cswilson]

Yeah you can do alot of fun stuff with your kids and not break the bank. My kids do alot of work on our place and durting A'I' time so they earn a little fun time.

[cswilson]

time with kids is an investment that will bring more returns than blue chip stock !!!

The number successful, self assured young men and women in our community that have come up through the 4-H ranks is certainly a testament to what happens when families spend time with their kids.

You don't see many farm kids shuffling aimlessly down the streets of their community, nor do you hear of many of them vandalizing someones home or business. I know there will be bad apples in every barrel but for the most part farm kids that are raised with responsiblities and expected behavior usually get through the terrible teens in pretty good fashion.

Our local county always hires farm kids for summer work,vs town kids, because they say that farm kids are responsible, know how to look after tools and equipment etc.

[whiteface]

That took guts crossfield, to admit that. I'm fairly certain there's a lot on this board that are spending waay more than they think they are. Good for you for knowing your costs. We're up there with you on our costs. I drive a kia rio and get laughed at lots until we're all sitting at the pump. It saves us a fortune on gas, but I'm not so lucky elsewhere...read, property taxes, mortgage payments, to live in "God's" country. Have a good day all.

[whiteface]

My property taxes took a significant jump this year due to increased assessment. Properties closer to urban centers on country residential parcels in particular really took a hit.

If Ralph and crew really want to do something as a legacy they should remove the education tax from property tax...it is the most unfair tax I know.

[farmers_son]

Crossfield_Beef: I don’t know if you are bragging or complaining when you say your take home is $4000 per month.

In another thread I believe cowman asked how many animals you fed this winter but I do not recall you answered. Especially In light of your generous life style I think we all would appreciate having that insight into your operation. I note you live in town. I believe I recall from another thread you mentioned your wife works and you stay home to watch the kids. Most producers would say they stay home to watch the cows, that was an interesting comment.

I have copied a post of yours from another thread.

https://www.agriville.com/cgi-bin/forums/viewThread.cgi?1145061973

Crossfield_beef said:

“The answer is right before your eyes. You CAN NOT LIVE ON THIS MUCH MONEY IN THIS DAY AND AGE.

I will expand on this later but farms will not support a family any longer.
So farmers-- GET OFF OF YOUR BUTTS.
For now a few points until I get some time to expand on this topic.

1)There are lots of good paying jobs that pay over $200 per day. These jobs still allow for time off to look after your farm. (these jobs are in Alberta)If you can drive a truck there is good money to be made.

2)A cattle operation can make money if you do not need to make a living from them. Cattle are a way to avoid tax and to store up equity quickly. Cattle can still pay some bills but will not supply the huge amount of money needed to raise a family. The expectations of a family and their needs are greater than expectations of one generation ago.

3)Any one that thinks that the farm life style is good, must think that being broke is the way to be. Get a job and at least be able to pay your power bill and be able to put gas in your truck. Take you wife out on a date and buy dinner. That is, if you still have a wife after trying to make it farming in this day and age.

4)Don't give up on the farm. Just don't try to make your living from it.”

On the one hand you say you spend $4000 per month to live, on the other hand you say that broke is the way to be. I think the majority of Alberta whose household expenses run $4000 would not consider themselves broke.

Since you intend to expand upon this topic as indicated in the above quote I am waiting for your reply as the size of operation you run. I am betting you have fewer than 20 cows and that you rent what land you have left out to others. Of course that is your business but there are many of us that do have the skills and management ability to make our living farming and pay our power bills too.

And by the way cattle are not a way to avoid paying tax unless you are buying more than you are selling each year. My cows make me money and I pay tax on that. At best cows will allow you to defer tax from one year to the next but as soon as they or their calves are sold you are paying the tax man. You cannot take home $4000 per month and not pay tax.

Crossfield_beef: I think if anyone should get off their butt it is you. Myself, I am very busy thank you very much and I am working to provide a reasonable living for my family and pay the bills too.

[cowman]

Well that was pretty brutal????
I wonder though what it costs the average family(let alone one with four kids) to live in suburbia? Don't know about anywhere else but housing prices in Red Deer are out of this world...I think they have it pegged around $275,000 average? Now I'm not up on mortgages but at 6% the interest on 275 K is $16,500/yr. or $1375 month...never mind the principle over 25 years!
I suspect $4000/month is not out of line for a family of six at all?
And just to correct something: I asked crossfield beef if he fed any cattle this winter...not how many? And I asked him if he did, how did that work for him? Because all voodoo economics aside...I doubt many people made much money feeding cattle this year? I wondered if he had decided to pass on feeding cattle like kpb...thats why I asked?
And finally Crossfield: If your wife is smoking $500/month at $9/pack...thats getting close to two packs a day? Not good for a young mother!

[coppertop]

I think if any family is concerned about expenses smoking would be the first thing that would end, not only the current cost but the cost to the family of second hand smoke and possible health problems. I have never been a smoker so I know nothing about getting 'hooked' on the damn habit, but I know that the health of my chldren and putting dollars aside for their education would be far more important to me than smoking, regardless of how many packages of gum I had to go through to quit.

$500 a month for ten years would certainly go a long way toward educating a the kids.

Most partents make numerous sacrifices for their kids, do without many extras while the kids are growing up, so smoking would certainly be the first one I would think.

$4000 per month seems like a lot of money, but if a fairly hefty mortgage payment is factored in, then it may not be so out of line after all.

[cowman]

Well once upon a time I was a smoker and a chewer and if I didn't have a health problem, probably still would be! I am a "forced puritan" not by choice!
The government in all its wisdom(and greed) decided to put the taxes up on all tobacco products so today that $9 pack of smokes is probably about $8 tax! And then they have the gall to say smoking is evil? Same thing goes for booze? They are worse than the Mafia?
If I didn't have to toe the line I could be a real dissipated type...smoking cigarettes, chewing snuff and being the town drunk! Such is life...definitely not fair? LOL

[coppertop]

I guess this is one instance where a person could say thank God for taxes cowman to save you from yourself.

[farmers_son]

Cowman: Brutal? I think we need to keep in mind that anyone can post on this site, they may or may not have cattle at all. While for many conversations it should not matter how many animals anyone fed last winter or how many cows they calved, I think in this case it does. If CB is calving 350 cows and both he and his wife are working off farm then I guess CB may get away with saying cattle producers should get off their butts because they have. If CB is calving 15 cows or no cows then I think he can take his advice and blow it out his ear.

CB’s wife probably had a tobacco habit before he married her. Three or four kids later is a little late to start focusing on the cost of a pack of smokes. The reality is that husband and wife are a team and both will decide together what kind of livestyle they wish, because it is a choice in this province and this job market. My impression is that CB needs to talk with his wife or as he points out he may not have one much longer. She may be looking wistfully at greener pastures for reasons other than their $4000 per month lifestyle. The average family earns about $64,000 in this province which works out to a take home of $4200 per month. If CB thinks $4000 is pretty slim, well half the households in this province gets by on less.

Why doesn’t CB take his own advice if there are so many jobs out there paying $200 per day. He says his wife works, I presume if both were making $200 per day they could have a take home of between $6500 and $7000 per month, so what is his problem?

I for one take exception to someone living in town, maybe only calving a few cows, maybe not having any cattle at all telling me to get off my butt when I am in the middle of calving and getting ready for spring work. I think CB should get off his own butt or keep his mouth shut.

[cowman]

Well farmers son I think Crossfield said he was a cattle feeder, not a cow/calf guy? And quite frankly I have always been fascinated with guys who feed cattle for a living? They have to have more balls than the NBA!
I am also interested in how some of them(like kpb) read the writing on the wall and bailed last fall...it is a lot more prevalant than you might think?
We all know we can live, one way or the other? I suspect you've never smoked and don't have much of an idea how tough it is to quit! It is like saying goodbye to your best friend.
I also suspect Crossfield is a young guy just trying to get by? Is it really necessary to beat him up on here? Why not save it for those tough old boys like Horse, Randy, and Grassfarmer? LOL
You give some good advice, although sometimes you sure make me do my homework trying to figure out where you are coming from! Cut the guy some slack...or he's gone?

[cowman]

Sorry I left out the toughest of the whole works...emerald! LOL