Cost of Living

[farmers_son]

Cowman, I disagree with your take on this. No one ever tells the oil worker that he/she should have to get off of their butt and take a second job. So why does CB get away telling cattle producers they should? And if anyone’s wife is looking wistfully at the greener grass it is the oil workers wife even though there may be more money available to spend. More money does not equal more happiness. I have found the farm life has brought my wife and I closer together as we share in the day to day struggles but also share in the rewards, even simple rewards like the newborn calves and the fresh crocuses. Now we look forward to having our children work along side us on the farm and eventually having the grandchildren nearby. I believe your situation is similar.

I will not comment directly on the $4000 per month. What is spent on living is a purely personal decision that is up to the individual couple. There is a wide variation of family spending habits but whatever the living is it should be affordable or it soon gets to be a problem. And to the extent that the family living impacts the growth of the farm that should also be a joint husband wife decision. I would point out that it would be wrong to paint the wife as the one who is the spendthrift. The husband may not be in the stores but no doubt enjoys the lifestyle along with the rest of the family. And some husbands can spend quite a bit on expensive toys and leave the wife struggling to manage for basic necessities.

Can a farm support a family anymore? Obviously some farms can and some cannot but it has been that way for quite a while. There is a cost to the farm however from the time away and that has to be balanced against the off farm wage. There is also a cost to the family that is harder to measure.

CB’s comment to the effect that “if you still have a wife after trying to make it farming in this day and age” is just absolutely rude. Many wives are partners in their operation and are dedicated to the farms survival. In fact many of the farm wives whose husbands are in the oil patch have to take a larger role on the farm and are very capable. The divorces I see are those couples where the one partner was away for long periods of time, most often in the oil patch. Just does not work.

[coppertop]

OH BS!!!!!!!!!! Who in hell said that having a spouse working away from home is a recipe for marriage failure ???

I have known couples that are never separated by work, but end up getting divorced because the 'grass looked greener' and it sure as hell wasn't the wife that was out checking across the fence !!!

If having to tough it out on the farm is all it takes for a wife to check out the 'grass on the other side' then there are certainly other things wrong with the ' pasture at home'

Farm families have had tough times and good times since there were farmers, and for the most part couples have stayed together because they made a committment to each other when they married. I think that any couple that puts each other first, and when kids come along, put them first will endure, no matter what kind of industry they work in, and no matter how tough things get financially.

As much as I agree with many of your comments farmers_son, I really take exception to your insinuation that oil patch families have trouble remaining faithful when they are separated. You lump an awful lot of married couples into that comment, and unless you have facts and figures to back it up, I would respectfully say that you are out to lunch !!!!!

[cowman]

Well I'm no expert on marriage. My own marriage failed after about twenty some years, more to do with going seperate ways than anything! I think marriage is like a team of horses? If you are both pulling in the same direction it will work.
I do know finances can be a big problem and if you don't have "enough" it can create all kinds of problems? I guess everyone has to define what is "enough"...and everybody has to be comfortable with that?
I also know time spent on any relationship is important and time spent working together, as well as playing together, can be very benificial?
When I got married my uncle told me "Now you will really find out what life is about. And when you have children...you'll find out even more!"
I was not a very good husband or father. Too many distractions to put much effort into either! Danced to my own piper if you will.

[coppertop]

cowman, many famlies put their own financial pressure on their marriage by the lifestyle they choose. I know that many farm families are struggling but I hardly think that a family that has $4000 a month to live on would fall into that category.

For one partner to say that the other spends $500 per month on any vice, be it smoking, drinking or whatever, and in the next breath say they are looking for greener pastures, then something tells me there are problems in paradise !!!

The main problem I see with marriage failure is the 'me' syndrome. It will never work if one partner puts their own wants and needs before their spouse or children.

Marriage is aboutt two people being willing to sacrifice to build a strong foundation, and anyone that enters into a permanent relationship blindly will either adapt or be miserable or have a failed relationship.

[coppertop]

sorry for a double post but I got to thinking last night about the number of couples I know that have gone their separate ways and the industry they were involved in, and funny but most of them were involved in some sort of farming .

There is the husband of our vet, who is now on his fourth marriage, he farms and has never worked away from home in the oil patch in his life.

The auction market owner and his wife who divorced after 25 years of marriage, and two of his sons, one a cattle buyer and the other an auctioneer who are both on their second marriage while in their 30's.

The farmer who kept buying more land, getting more cattle while his wife drank herself silly, also ended up getting divorced.

The neighbours half a mile away swapped partners, each divorced and remarried, now one of them was a farmer, the other was the hired hand for the farmer down the road, and one wife was the Avon lady, but who knows, maybe she moonlighted in the oil patch and that was the cause !!!

Another casualty within a couple of miles from here was the driver for the highway contractor and his wife, he found a nice little honey and decided he needed to be 'free'.

The list goes on, and I would suspect that less than 25% of the people in this area that have divorced are actually involved in the oil industry and work away from home.Now maybe where farmers_son lives there is an epidemic of failed marriages due to that @@##$$ oil patch, but it isn't that way here.

[cowman]

Well without a doubt the industry offers a lot of opportunities to "escape" the old bonds? And long periods of seperation can add stress to any marriage?
That wasn't my problem. I usually made it home. I doubt there was ever much of a real committment on my part...it was sort of a shotgun marriage, if you get my drift? It is amazing how conception to birth is usually 9 months...except for that first kid! LOL
I actually was very bored with family life...to be honest! Never really liked young kids very much back then. Now I really do enjoy my grand kiddies!
My wife basically raised those kids of mine. I just wasn't very interested! More interested in farming and the oil business! I guess I just wasn't cut out for it.
My spouse now(8 years) is a very independent lady. She does her thing and I do mine and we get along very well. I'm "educating" her on how to be an old neo fascist redneck hillbilly! LOL

[coppertop]

lack of committment is usually what causes folks to stray across the other side of the fence, not the industry they are in.

Just because one partner is working away from home does not mean they are any more likely to be unfaithful. I always say that if they have it 'in them' they will find a way regardless of whether they are away a lot or home by the fireside every night.

Not many men would be as candid about their shortcomings of the past as you have been cowman, glad things are working out for you now, and above, all glad you are enjoying being a granpa !!!!!!

[farmers_son]

Crossfield_beef suggests that cattle producers need to get off their butts and get off farm work or the wife will be looking wistfully for greener pastures that is if you still have a wife after trying to make it farming in this day and age. That is what prompted my comments and remarks like that do deserve comment.

Coppertop: The divorces I do see around me did involve one partner being away, most often working in the oil patch but I have family involved in the war in Iraq and that is the cause of some divorces too. We are fortunate here that we do not see many divorces amongst our neighbouring farm families, the last one I recall was about 10 years ago and it really was out of our area. I rechecked what I said and I did make it clear I was talking about the divorces I see. Obviously your area is different.

Statistics indicate that about 50% of marriages end in divorce. Given that not many of us farm any more I think it is fair to say most of those people would live in town. Without having firm numbers to back up any comments I would not be surprised if the annual living costs of those divorced families ran the complete range from high to low. Some couples find ways to be happy with little and others are not so lucky even though they have been blessed monetarily. I recall one rather old eccentric gentleman in our area who offered the opinion that money is the root of all evil. We often wish for more money but that money can come at a price. I do know you can look at the identical balance sheets of two farms but without considering how solid the marriage is you will not know if either farm is financially secure.

Most farms are partnerships between at least two people, a husband and wife plus children in many cases. For the operation to be solid everyone must be happy with their situation. There is no single magic number for monthly living. The real question is are you and your family happy with your situation. If there is dissatisfaction the answer may not be an off farm job or more money however. I find a kind word, a hug and a kiss every day, even a look that communicates how much I appreciate my wife go much farther than money ever could. As for the children, appreciation, support, my trying to be good example seem to be working for me just as well or better than those fathers who buy their kids a new car. Money is not the answer and a focus on money will not gain you happiness.

[coppertop]

farmers_son, obviously you have your priorities in place in your marriage and family situation. Unforunately manye people do not.
If one partner's priorities are a fancy home, nice car and tropical vacations every year, while the other partner wants to build a good nest egg, live frugally and not try and keep up with the Jones, there will be problems, regardless of what line of work either of them are involved in.

I highly doubt that anyone working in the oil industry, military or a farmer out plowing the field will check out the opposite side of the fence on the spur of the moment if they have had any sort of committment to their current relationship.Maybe I am coming from out in left field on this situation but the people I know who have had solid marriages, been committed to their spouse and family through thick and thin, good times and bad.

The divorce rate is high because people don't put effort into keeping a marriage alive, its so much easier to cut and run vs working to strengthen and build.
The reason we see so many kids in crisis in this province is directly tied to the failure of parents to take responsiblity for providing a HOME and FAMILY unit in place.
Many kids who have seen their parents divorce, had to contend with new step parents, possibly step siblings, and Lord knows many of these blended families don't last. Many kids nowdays have grandparents that are divorced for godsakes.

I took issue with your comments farmers_son because you directly took aim at one industry for marriage failure and it may be the case in your community but I highly doubt that it is across the board. In fact one only has to look to the AB. Legislature and see the history of broken marriages among MLA's who aren't really working in the oilpatch !!!

[cowman]

Well don't know about candid, but I sure think it is important that you know yourself and accept who you are...with all the warts and wrinkles! Nothing worse than someone decieving themselves!
Actually it is sort of funny in that all my kids think I am the real meal deal and have a rather rocky relationship with their mother! Maybe because it was how I always treated them like "big people" when they were little people? While she mother henned them to death!...Now mind you if I had been solely raising them they would have probably been dead from neglect and inattention!
I remember my yougest daughter wanted to do something risky when she was about five and her mother had said no! She complained to me how she was being treated unfairly and I said well you are just a little people and in this world big people make the rules. She replied real strongly " well little people should make ALL the rules"!
I thought that over and said you know you just might be right!...as I said I wasn't very helpful at times...LOL

[coppertop]

Seems to me that a mom's role is to
' mother hen' her chicks cowman !!!!!

[rookie]

A family and a home require both partnres or parents to be there.

If they are not, like it or not , over time people can grow apart. F_S is right on his comments.

[coppertop]

Having both parents at home does not necessarily mean everything is going to be perfect !!!!

Both parents need to be committed to providing a nuturing home for thier children. If one parent's employment takes him or her away from the home for periods of time, they can still be a committed parent, and being away doesn't necessarily mean they and their spouse will grow apart.

[cswilson]

Doesn't absence make the heart grow fonder-I used to love leaving on a two or three day cattle trip because I got to kiss my wife good bye. Sorry to say in this world or Dr. Laura and Phil quick fixes and self help books there is no magic formula for marital success and raising kids.

[coppertop]

On this I agree with you cswilson.

I was just thinking that if we use the analagy that some folks have indicated on this post, both sets of parents could be raging drunks but as long as neither of them worked away from home, the kids should be enjoying living in paradise !! NOT !!!!