Wondering about this?

[cowman]

In 1992 steer calves were right in that $1.25/lb. range for top notch calves? I bought a new 4X4 that year for $18,500. I'm not sure where gas was at but doubt it was more than 50 cents/L?
Okay skip ahead to 2006? Gas is $1.08L? Pickup is $38,000?...calves are...$1.25!!! Somewhere along the line something didn't work here? Oh no problem...we'll just raise twice as many calves...and feed the cows cheaper!
Now I sure hope those darned calves will get out and sell themselves for a higher price when gas goes up to $1.50/L and the pickup goes up to $50,000!
Now before I get roasted for whining too much...I have to ask...when does this not work? My cows have a real problem existing on snowballs and willow brush!

[cakadu]

Your not wrong in your opinion about this as far as I am concerned.

And if the trend continues, then it must just be a matter of time for the relatively few left raising beef or growing crops?

But if this is the case, why doesn't such an important thing get such little attention? It is serious isn't it?

[whiteface]

It's not working now, cowman, unless you're an oil guy (and we all work for the oil industry in some form or another) who likes to have a little piece of dirt (to some, "little" can be a full section depending on your income) and need something for yourself, your wife or kids to do on the weekends or after school/work, just to relax and get away from it all. Cattle fit the description perfectly. Tax write off, peacefully munching the grass, have a round up in the fall with your buddies, send calves to the auction, collect a "huge" paycheck (huge, because no costs of production are factored in). No, there is no money in cattle AROUND HERE with the costs of living, land and taxes to be considered. Maybe elsewhere where the "lifestyle" is the goal and people can and do live on sunrises and promises. No price tag on that one for many people. But around here what I just described above is a pretty nice lifestyle, just like most toys, it costs rather than pays to have those niceties...trucks, horses, quads, snowmobiles, sea-doos, cattle, houses (laugh). I'll get roasted along with you cowman but it's okay, I've got broad shouldars and been there done that. Hope you have a good day all and no, I'm not picking on anyone, I tried to change the numbers but found it was just easier to change my perspective. Thanks for reading.

[cswilson]

Are there troubles in Paradise-sheesh how do people ranch in Saskatchewan,Manitoba and B.C. where there aren't oil wells-not everybody who doesn't work off farm is a lifestyle rancher I'm afraid to say.Don't worry though Ralphie will have a present or two for you before he leaves this fall.I find it hard to believe that people living in God's chosen province do so darn much complaining. Lots of outfits up here are paying their bills,raising their kids and making a living off their cows-maybe it don't work on paper but it sure seems to be working for them.

[WoolyBear]

Price of gas in 1992 was hovering around the 50 cents a litre mark. We had just finished the 1st Gulf War and prices were slowly coming level.

Another thought that the wife and I had was how society seems to benchmark a doctors salary at the investment he had made in education. I don't know the numbers, but lets say $25,000/yr for 8 years. Doctors command a 6 figure salary (atleast). What does $200,000 buy any farmer? Either a a 1000 acres and a pile of crap machinery, or a 4 wheel drive tractor with no wheels. It won't buy enough good cows to make a living on, but maybe enough range land to pasture a 100 on. Doctors make a decent living, and have time off (YES THEY DO!) so what would a farmer make, if he has a $1M invested?

Food for though.........

[coppertop]

cswilson there are many farmers and ranchers in Alberta that do not have surface revenue and nor do they work off the farm in the resource industry. They are facing the same hardships that face farmers across the country.

Surface revenue, you may not realize, is to compensate for loss of use of farmland. If the farmer can't pasture cows, raise crops or forage on the land, would you not suggest that it is fair that he or she be compensated ?


Again, the green eyed monster of envy seems to be front and centre, but you know what, I envy people who live in cities like Saskatoon, where there are no refineries, no huge industry and not a million people driving to and from work. They can at least get a breaath of fresh air !! So count your blessings instead of indulging in rock throwing across the border.

[blackjack]

...and all the cars and trucks giving you the finger for being on the road with your farm equipment...

[coppertop]

YUP, the grass isn't always greener on the other side !!

[whiteface]

How do they do it in other provinces, wilson...
Here's my two cents and if it doesn't work for you well I didn't force you to read it either.
They don't do it other provinces either. The smart ones that have stopped beating their heads against the brick walls now no longer have headaches. They are flocking to this province like there is no tommorrow. For those of us still living here that think we can make the numbers work running livestock are literally getting run right out. We can either compete by getting jobs in a province where I don't think you could NOT work if you tried...
Or stubbornly keep our cattle and farms convinced that its the lifestyle that we love and that the numbers work. But it will have to be in a place where the numbers do work, usually places where nobody except cattle would want to live, because if people want to live there, the land prices go up to where it will no longer justify the price of cattle or grain.
Employers here are screaming for people to work everywhere and they pay extremely well to compete with that oil money.
Land is through the roof and still going higher. Calgary homes up 33% last year in Red Deer 35%. Did you read that????!!! Read it again. Nothing short of ferocious. No one accuse me of bragging, this is FYI only and only to assure anyone with any doubts that I do have some real estate experience that every time we have a property that comes available for rent is gone just about sight unseen and for what would seem to be unrealistic prices and just about NEVER are the people renting the places from around here. ANYWHERE else but here and comeing here looking for work. TONS of kids from farm families who refuse to be sentenced to that kind of life when they could have it all by moveing here. Good for us in some ways, and sucks in some others. Just the facts. When grass pays more than the oil industry, I promise you'll see cities getting ripped up. Until then, at least while Bushwacker is president we can go with it or complain and try and go against it. Like I said, I tried the numbers and it turns out my attitude was easier. Not so the case with everyone. Many want to try and simply be the last one standing. I want to stand and actually enjoy where I'm standing. I do enjoy reading all of your posts and thanks for the time it takes for your contributions. Have a good day all.

[coppertop]

not only are land prices going through the roof so it property assessment which means higher taxes not only to urban residents but to farmers for their house and three acre building site which, for those of you in other provinces, means that in Alberta we pay a certain rate on farmland and are assessed at market value for the house and tree acre site, which includes the improvements like water wells, sewer and power !!!


My taxes went up $197.00 this year, so I am meeting the assessors next week to find out excactly what they compared it to.

Usually the comparison is made with properties selling in the vicinity.

[coppertop]

Monday, Apr 24, 2006
Food industry faces labour shortage

(CBC) - People in the restaurant industry say the province's chronic labour shortage means their customers aren't getting the service they deserve.

More money is being spent in Alberta restaurants because of the economic boom, but the industry is losing staff to other jobs and it's difficult to replace them with experienced people.

Dave Kaiser, spokesperson for the Alberta Hotel Association, said the shortage is affecting the quality of service.

"There's bound to be some impact," he said. "Certainly, when you are running short-staffed, you're not able to deliver the same level of service when you are fully staffed."

Last year, the accommodation and food service industry lost close to 16,000 people. This is forcing owners and managers to hire inexperienced people or, in the case of at least one restaurateur, do the work themselves.

"We've been really busy, which is a beautiful thing," said Roxanne Taylor-King, who runs the Nellie's restaurant chain. "But it's not so beautiful when there's only one of me, and I can only be in one place. In the 10 years I've owned these stores, I've never worked this many shifts."

[cswilson]

I'm just wondering why Albertan's seem to be the biggest complainers on this board-am I envious of Alberta-not in the slightest-do I get a little tired of the whining some of them do day after day on here-you betcha. The more you have-the more you need-the more you need-the more you want. If you don't think you can make it ranching there quit-land values are high-go do something else. We'll just keep soldiering out here in the wasties.These boards are supposed to be a place to exchange productive ideas not to be a pity party sobfest.

[coppertop]

cswilson, there have been posts by farmers in other areas complaining or advising the rest of us of the hardships they are enduring in the industry.

I have never felt they were whining. Granted, there are some folks on this site that complain about everything but they aren't the majority, and hopefully you don't lump all Alberta ranchers and farmers into one group...

[blackjack]

...well cowman the heavier feeders went up 50 bucks last week...now if only those darn steers will go up another 450 bucks so i can buy me a new truck and the gas...

[farmers_son]

Cswilson raises some important points. “The more you have-the more you need-the more you need-the more you want.” I believe that is true of everyone, whatever their occupation or where in the world they live.

“If you don't think you can make it ranching there quit-land values are high-go do something else.” High land values in Alberta, at least partly fueled by an overheated energy sector, are causing quite a bit of concern for those who are looking to farm or ranch and need to expand. Yes they could move to Saskatchewan and buy some very reasonably priced land. Our ranching community could also move to the United States where cattle prices are much more profitable than in Canada; they could enjoy the fruits of protectionism and pretend BSE does not exist just like their southern neighbours. In today’s world goods and services move around the world but people are not as easily mobile. Especially for farm families their ties to their land are strong having been built over generations. There was a mass movement of people off the land in this area during the 1930s and many went to the Peace River country. Are things at the same point today…I do not know. One difference between today and the thirties is in the thirties the land ended up being farmed by the ones who stayed while today the land will end up being owned by someone out of the area who will farm it as an absentee landowner. I think that is an important distinction and it probably is happening in Saskatchewan too. What will be left?

Cowman made comparisons about the price of gas, pickups and calf prices. The price of a commodity like gas is impacted during times of war. During the 1973 war in the Middle East, crude prices tripled. The fall of the Shah of Iran in the late 70's again increased prices, as well as unprecedented volatility. The Irag-Iran was caused prices to rise. When Bush attacked Iraq the handwriting was on the wall for energy prices.

As for the price of a pickup…General Motors lost 1.3 billion in the first quarter of 2005, a further 1.2 billion in the second quarter of 2005 and yet a further 1.6 billion in the third quarter. If they keep loosing money at that rate they will soon be able to call themselves farmers. I should send them a pair of coveralls and a ball cap so at least they can look the part.

The economy cannot withstand high energy prices such as we see for any length of time before it grinds to a halt. And when we realize that many sectors of agriculture went into the high energy prices after a period of sustained economic strain the collapse would be expected to be seen there first.

Getting back to Cswilson's comment about the more you have the more you need. We may all be having and needing a little less within a couple of years.