Wondering about this?

[cowman]

Well my original point wasn't about high priced or low priced land, but about how the product we sell just isn't keeping up with the Joneses?
Where does that end?
It is all very well to trim up our costs to try to stay solvent, but sooner or later there is nothing left to trim!
And unfortunately we all have to live and again no matter how cheap we might try, prices keep going up? That has to be very difficult for a young family?
I don't have a solution...not sure there is one? We become more efficient, we become more productive...and we get less and less for what we produce...how can that continue to work?

[coppertop]

not only young families cowman. Many folks nearing retirement age are finally getting their debt load pared down, but with the high cost of inputs or just basic essentials there is no opportunity to put a little away for a rainy day.

[blackjack]

kpb...should have known you had done your research ...i just know of a couple families that sold good productive land to move to another area to expand to be disappointed in what they were able to produce... i think from reading your posts you like to keep a grip on what land prices are doing in other areas...in saying that i think you would agree that some real estate agents will exaggerate the production of the land they're trying to sell... back to my own personal position we would never be able to expand into the area i am in now for a return on investment ranching ...so again your right for a return on investment a person would have to move away from the highway 2 corridor ...if they were wanting to make a living from ranching ...

purecountry...i was raised about 15 miles northwest of youngstown as the crow flies... now i live 25 miles southwest of red deer near the village of spruceview...

cowman...i don't have the answer either...all i know that coppertop is right there are less and less funds available for that rainy day...

[coppertop]

Realtors aren't above exaggerating many things to get a sale. Evidence of this are the Europeans buy land through a Realtor broker that tells them it's a turnkey set up for a confined feeding operation ; hogs, dairy etc., only to find that when they get here and start to populate barns they find that the operation wasn't in operation for several years and they must bring it up to current regs prior to populating their barns . Unfortunately its buyer beware specially when it comes to land. Anyone contemplating buying land only needs to speak with area farmers, or the local Ag Fieldman to get an idea of what the production capability of land in the area is.

[smcgrath76]

I was just reading in my stockman grassfarmer about the rule of thumb that purchase is 10 times rent.
In our area land would trade for $200 - $500 per acre if that rule were applied (vs. $800 - 1000)

[grassfarmer]

Coppertop, Of course it's always buyer beware to an extent when you buy land but don't underestimate the knowledge of European farming immigrants. Most of them have been at it more generations than the people here. As for speaking to area farmers about production capacity - I'd hold off on that one. By the time you work out who are the smart operators, the b.s'rs and the village idiots you've already lived here a while. I'm reminded of someone in the extension business I spoke to early on - I was saying that I knew what I was doing with cattle but needed to pick up some "local knowledge" on the different growing season. He snorted and said "what local knowledge?"

disclaimer: not meant to cause offence to any readers of this site or those otherwise engaged in agriculture. The views are those of the writer and not of European immigrants in general.

[coppertop]

grassfarmer I certainly did not mean to undermine European farmers but I do know of several cases where farms were marketted in Europe as being all ready set up confined feeding operations, and when the purchasers arrived the found that they were forced to upgrade barns, lagoons etc. prior to being allowed to commence business. This certainly is not a reflection on thos individuals, but was meant as a criticism against the practices of some realtors and land brokers.

[cowman]

grassfarmer: I wonder where all the local yokels came from? Did they just majically appear under a cabbage leaf one day? Or did they too come from Europe? If so wouldn't one assume they too might have generations and generations of European agricultural experience? Just like the Johnny come latelies? Maybe European farmers become stupid or something once they get to Canada, or revert back to neanderthals or something? Maybe that is our problem!
Or perhaps (here comes the shocker) they learned how to adapt and survive in this country and just might be able to teach the "new" European immigrant something of value? No...probably not...it seems all the real progress in agriculture was done in the last hundred years by superior European farmers! Hmmm...if they know it all I wonder why they are leaving Europe?

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, It's a well known fact in Scotland that the most successful producers on the poor soils and wet climate of the west coast move to the higher value east coast where the soils are better and life a lot easier. Once they get there they adopt the "lazier" lifestyle of their new neighbours. If you don't need to push too hard human nature doesn't tend to. I suspect this is true of Canada and immigrants to an extent.
I bet Cor Van Raay is real glad he learnt how to get on in Canada from you Cowman.

[cowman]

Nope Cor never learned nothing from me, but I bet he learned a lot from someone? I don't think he hit the shore here feeding 100,000 steers!
I know another Dutch guy who came here and didn't know zip about gas and oil. Now he could probably buy Cor Van Ray lock stock and barrel...ten times over!
People adapt and find there own level of competance wherever or whatever they are doing. Some are driven to greatness, some are comfortable at a smaller level?
People are people, no matter what their nationality or the color of their hide! They all want to get ahead and have a secure life? How they get there is their own choice, and in reality there is no right way and no wrong way. Just whatever it takes to get you down the road. Just my opinion.

[coppertop]

Anyone who is to succeed in another country is going to have to be on a steep learning curve from day one, and make themselve aware of the rules and regulations that will govern their particular business etc.

[grassfarmer]

It's a bit like the "local knowledge" thing - what rules and regulations? Coming from Europe it's not hard to adapt as there don't seem to be many rules and regulations and the ones there are aren't enforced. That was the least of my "things to learn"

[cowman]

Yea grassfarmer, its pretty good! Personally I think we need a lot less rules and regulations than we have today! I've never been much of a fan of the government telling me what I can or cannot do? Enjoy it, because I doubt it will last for long?

[coppertop]

any rules that aren't enforced are due to the huge lobby from industry to water down the regulations that are in place !!!!!