Green keepers

[whiteface]

I have to get a turn at this double posting thing that some of you have already tried. Yeah, no kidding Copper has Red Deer ever changed and no end in sight. I think we'll all move in with Wilson, he's making the numbers work, loves the lifestyle and his wife still gets kissed when he leaves. Lucky girl! Have a good day all!

[coppertop]

excellent comments whiteface. We all manage our operations differently, and after farming for 30 years I have decided that there is no 'right and wrong' way to pasture cattle. It's a management decision, what works in one operations may not work for another.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, the answer is simple - it's called a backfence.

Whiteface, I was rather hoping you were going to enlighten me on the positive effects of turning cows out on a quarter section in April. Given the grass is an inch high and they will be expected to graze here until fall "supplementation" starts in July/August. Views and opinions are all very well but sometimes it comes down to cold hard facts.

[coppertop]

but grassfarmer is it really anyone's business other than the producer in question ?

[grassfarmer]

Coppertop, That being the case it would rather limit the discussions we have on Argriville. When someone is quick to tell me my opinion on something is wrong I think it's fair to ask them to explain their opinion.

[coppertop]

seems that you were the one that commenced this post by criticizing some of your neighbours for having cattle out on grass...which is their management decision.

[whiteface]

I'll give you a positive reason for turning the cows out onto a quarter in April...
Bloat.
If they are turned out "early" before the grass is really in good shape, they get better conditioned to handle the grass (meaning their gut) before it gets really potent and full of sugar and they're just raring to go haveing been locked up that much longer. If cattle are given the chance to work themselves into the grass slower rather than just being turned out all at once into a foot or more high later I promise you will have far fewer digestive upsets. More management with feeding, less management with medications and death loses. I totally believe that I am living proof that cattle can be "trained" or "conditioned" to handle very high amounts of "hot grass" and still do well without fear of dropping dead. Hope that works for you grassfarmer, I have more but don't especially want to sound like a know it all because I still learn lots everyday too. Have a good night all!

[grassfarmer]

Thanks for that Whiteface, I don't graze pastures with a high enough density of legumes to have bloat problems so that wouldn't be a consideration on my place. Certainly the gut takes time to adjust from a hay ration to a grass ration and cattle turned from one to the other have a tough few days before the rumen bacteria get geared up. Grazing banked grass allows for this transition quite nicely. Isn't bloat caused more by the protein levels of grass versus the sugar levels? The younger the grass the higher the protein.

[cowman]

Now I'm no expert on this stuff, but I can't remember ever having any bloat problems or upset stomachs with any cows on grass? Well other than when they got into an alphalfa field years ago!
The boy is very high on meadow brome. Thinks it is the real deal after he went to see this guy west of Penhold who is rotation grazing 100 acres.100 pairs on 100 acres. This guy figures if the grass is all one species the cows won't pick and choose where to eat. And I have to admit the guy has a system that seems to work. One pair an acre for 5 months and then into the rye fields where he has already taken off a silage crop. John Elliot is his name.
Personally I thought his calves were sort of a bunch of scrubby little buggers, but I guess that had more to do with the type of cattle than the system.

[rkaiser]

John's a thinker cowman. I know the guy and would ad that he is a working fool as well. Innovation in grazing is great stuff and we can all learn from guys like John. Sure would be interesting to know who this cowman guy is.

I think whitey has a decent point and I would like to add to it. We all know about something called foot cracks or sand cracks. Stress causes these things as much as anything, and the stress I am refering to is that brought on by abrupt shifts in nutrition. Probably the best way to avoid this abrupt shift is the route grassfarmer talks of with banked grass grazed in late April and May with the new shoots. The second best way may be the Whitey way where we offer ample feed while sacrificing a paddock with little cover and some tantalizing new grass.

Every one of us knows what grassfarmer was refering to when he started this thread and every one of us knows that chucking 50 cows out on an 1/4 section of land that was already pushed to the limit last year is a recipe for disaster.