Green keepers

[grassfarmer]

I see a few of the locals are acting like golf course groundsmen already. The pastures they chewed down to ground level last summer were starting to shoot so they've had to turn the cows out on them. They can't stand that grass getting above an inch high. And so begins another cycle of poor management... ensuring the pasture will be played out by August (and that's if we get a wet year)and they will be feeding for 7-8 months again next winter.

[whiteface]

It's just "different" management grassfarmer, not necessarily "poor" management. No, mine aren't out yet and yes, the grass is over an inch and looking good so far. Could use a rain, but there's a lot of things I could use too and will likely get by without. There is always a big spread between needs and wants. Have a good night all.

[coppertop]

grassfarmer, my cattle are in a 20 acre paddock where I feed them in the winter. I calve them in the corrals, then move them into a 20 acre paddock where the calf shelters are, they have been out picking at the grass but they are still being fed WELL. I turned them into a different paddock for a couple of days but they are being moved back in where the calf shelters are if we get the nasty weather that is in the forecast.

I don't turn them out on the main pastures until June. There isn't enough grass in this country now to sustain them on pasture and I like to keep them close to the buildings when the calves are small just in case one happens to get sick.

[cowman]

Well I expect a lot of people feed their cows 7 to 8 months a year or 210 to 240 days a year? Not saying there is anything wrong with that...if you like feeding cows!
Bottom line is it probably doesn't cost a heck of a lot more to feed them than to grass them? When hay gets down in that 2 cent a pound range maybe cheaper to feed them than grass them!
Garst Brothers in Iowa showed they could clearly drylot cows on corn silage and cleaning up the corn fields after harvest, much cheaper than grazing grass. A good portion of the ration was "shucklage" the aftermath of combined corn, ensiled? They ran literally thousands of cows, both drylotted and on grass. The drylot cows made way more money, had bigger healthier calves, and were more fertile. I think most people who grow some corn have heard the Garst name...as well as a good portion of the Simmental breeders? They never gave their purebreds fancy names...they were always registered as "Garst Cow" with a number behind it!

[cowman]

Further on this: Despite all the experts, I suspect a quick light grazing in the spring doesn't really hurt grass all that much? In fact it almost seems to get it going...just my opinion?
It just seems to me that if you have some old growth from last year with some green starting to show...that grazing seems to get rid of some of the old grass as the cow eats it to get the green stuff? As usual, I'm probably totally wrong, but it sure seems to work for me! Just my opinion.

[farmers_son]

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/for8644

It is a common practice in this area to turn cows into grain stubble fields in the early spring and they eat the grass in the headlands and sloughs. It may not be the best pasture management but the grass in these fields would not normally be available for grazing during the summer cropping season and the cows like it. As well, there is a management need to get calves out of confined areas and onto clean ground to reduce the incidence of disease. In these cases the priority is herd health not grass management and some of the productivity of those first fields is perhaps sacrificed to give the calves a clean place. I typically would have bale feeders in those fields and the cows will eat from the feeder depending upon the growth of the grass which seems to vary from day to day.

From watching the cows it seems to me that the new grass seems to grow overnight. While this may not make sense I see the cows typically will be out grazing new grass, even in the confined calving area, first thing in the morning then they are waiting for hay in the afternoon. I feed late afternoon for calving purposes.

[coppertop]

The best fields to kick cows on this time of year are fescue pastures that were undergrazed last year. The fescue in addition to their hay etc. sure keeps condition on the cows.

I drove down to Red Deer yesterday and saw quite a few herds out picking in pastures with hay in feeders available.

Cowman, Linda etc. that entire community of Red Deer city and county are just going nuts as far as development goes !!! I had to deliver something to a place in a new development east of the Westerner, took me half an hour to find the @@##$$ place, there is so much new development in that area !!

[grassfarmer]

Farmers_son, grazing grass areas in stubble fields sounds like a great idea to achieve the health benefits you talk of as well as utilising this grass before the fields are seeded.
I don't think the grass is growing overnight so much as it's the grazing pattern of a bovine. Cows shrink something approaching 3% overnight so it's only natural that they spend their first few waking hours trying to fill that stomach up. By late afternoon or evening they will look full regardless of whether they are on hay or grass(assuming there is enough quantity)

Whiteface, maybe you'd like to share with us the benefits of this
"different" way of managing pasture?

Cowman, When you say that grazing an inch high shoot seems to make the grass grow better do you know what it's doing to the root which contains the plant's energy reserve?

[cowman]

Well grassfarmer I wasn't talking about fields that have been grazed to the roots the year before, but the ones with some over growth? As the green shoots start to appear in the old grass?
Don't know how you could avoid it when you are using banked forage for spring grazing...like right now?
Maybe I have too much grass in that it never has been much of a concern for me.

[whiteface]

Thanks for asking grassfarmer, some of the fleeting thoughts that were going through my head at the time that I wrote that comment have already been expressed above. I think it's important to note that everyone manages their lives to the level that they feel works best for them and this forum provides us all with the opportunity to argue our points as to why our opinion is the best way. I for one have taken many of your opinions and (you all think I'm going to say changed my mind, wrong, I'm waaay to stubborn, LOL!) but have considered some opinions at great length to how they may work for myself better than how I stubbornly think they work best now.
Bottom line is grassfarmer, while guys may have their cows out "where you can see them" right now, you don't really have any way of knowing for sure if they don't have some "banked grass" elsewhere and perhaps instead of "poor management" they just might be trying some "different management" aka, copying YOUR ideas and thus should be swelling your ego rather than irritating you. No, I won't always be this detailed and congenial and a mediating type but you asked and that's my opinion. Rather than be offended by your "poor" comment I chose the route of thinking it was very possible that there were some management changes that perhaps had been brought about by some of your very good ideas that had filtrated around somewhat and were now being put into practice. Just a possibility. Aren't I just the picture of sunshine and happiness this morning??? Not to worry, it will pass, have to finish taxes today, that'll cure any good mood! Have a good day all!

[whiteface]

I have to get a turn at this double posting thing that some of you have already tried. Yeah, no kidding Copper has Red Deer ever changed and no end in sight. I think we'll all move in with Wilson, he's making the numbers work, loves the lifestyle and his wife still gets kissed when he leaves. Lucky girl! Have a good day all!

[coppertop]

excellent comments whiteface. We all manage our operations differently, and after farming for 30 years I have decided that there is no 'right and wrong' way to pasture cattle. It's a management decision, what works in one operations may not work for another.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, the answer is simple - it's called a backfence.

Whiteface, I was rather hoping you were going to enlighten me on the positive effects of turning cows out on a quarter section in April. Given the grass is an inch high and they will be expected to graze here until fall "supplementation" starts in July/August. Views and opinions are all very well but sometimes it comes down to cold hard facts.

[coppertop]

but grassfarmer is it really anyone's business other than the producer in question ?

[grassfarmer]

Coppertop, That being the case it would rather limit the discussions we have on Argriville. When someone is quick to tell me my opinion on something is wrong I think it's fair to ask them to explain their opinion.