The best cattle

[smcgrath76]

Never ever said that stuff isn't important. Certainly functional traits are important, but if it is a choice between nice looking cattle with information and nice looking cattle with no information?
Personally, in our operation we won't buy a bull without numbers (not big numbers, the numbers we want). We also won't buy bulls that haven't been ultrasounded with their group.
These are tools that we use to reach a specific goal. I agree 100% that without a specific goal, EPD don't work. This is the biggest problem with most users of the technology.
As an example, we have fed commercial calves from known sires with very different EPD profiles for growth. The differences are very real, and can cost or make a lot of money when they show up in your feeder calves.

[coppertop]

Using EPD's for various traits will depend on the type of operation.

For instance someone who backgrounds their calves higher yearling wt. EPD's will be important.

I use EPD's for bull selection but also want to see the herd potential sires come from, and if possible see his dam and female siblings .


Udders, feet,docility are all very important in any bull that I use here.

Milk EPD's can be very deceiving, sometimes a cow will have lousy milk EPD's when you know darn well she is one of the best milkers in the herd.

[grassfarmer]

As Kit Pharo says on EPD's: "What are the best EPDs ? the answer to this question can be found in a set of old cows that reside in your area. Look for cows that are well adapted and do not require much in the way of feed and care. Look for cows that are required to breed back and wean a calf every year. Look for cows that have done all of this for at least ten years. When you find those good, old grandma cows, check their pedigrees and see what kind of EPDs they have. I’ll guarantee their EPDs won’t be very big or impressive.

[coppertop]

exactly, and that is why I only consider EPD's one tool in the tool box when it comes to selecting replacement cattle or herdsires here.

I have some of those old gals in this herd, have their daughters and grandaughters. They are predictable,and that is key to building a good herd in my view.

[grassfarmer]

Coppertop, "Udders, feet,docility are all very important in any bull that I use here." - you use bulls with udders?

[coppertop]

the bulls daughters will likely have udders and hopefully his mother does as well grassfarmer.. If the mother has a sloppy, ill attached udder the trait may pass on to the daughters of her sons......

I do know the required equipment for a bull grassfarmer.....and that is one thing that is the same regardless of the breed !!!!!!!

[grassfarmer]

Further to Pharo's advice on EPDs and longevity that I posted above I did a little calculation tonight. Of the Luing bulls registered in Canada since 2000, 64% were out of cows 12 years old or more. Anyone got statistics for other breeds?

[coppertop]

Were most of the cows import cows grassfarmer ? That may explain why the large number of bull calves registered were from older cows.

I have no clue what the average age of dams of registered bulls are in the Limousin breed but I doubt that it would be 12 years.

[cowman]

Well I always figured if your old cows are producing your best calves you aren't moving forward? Your young cows should be getting better, if you are improving the genetics?
I guess I believe the old cowboy saying: Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey and more money!
Just my opinion.

[grassfarmer]

Coppertop, none of the calves were off imported cows as the last remaining imports were culled by the Government due to BSE restrictions around '96.

Cowman, that's very much the dairy world theory, where output is everything and imputs aren't considered. It's easy to increase "production traits" ie milk, growth etc but if you aren't achieving the longevity it is a sign you have other problems - with fertility, ease of calving, feet, udders etc.