Another CAIS beef!!

[kato]

I went to yet another CAIS informational meeting last week, and a discussion came up that really got my back up.

Remember back then, when the program was announced, just what life was like for us cattle producers. I'm not sure about others here, but we were coming off of five good years, and were very happy with the way things were going. This meant we had quite a nice reference margin to work with. It also meant that that government was demanding a pretty good chunk of change from us to secure the account.

Only one problem. BSE. At the time most cattle producers were in heavy duty survival mode, and were fighting to keep one step ahead of the banker as it was, us included. To even consider going out to borrow money so it could sit in the bank was inconceivable on our farm. I don't know about you guys, but more debt was the last thing we were looking for. I told this to the man at the meeting, and said that we compromised and chose a lower level, rather than take the risk of more debt. He told me it was a good thing we did that, at least, because a lot of guys didn't even sign up because of the deposit requirement. I said to him that farms could very well have been lost because of that, and he said that they had!

Now that the requirement of having the account has been dropped, the unfairness of the situation where the very people who needed this program the most were excluded from full participation exactly because they didn't have extra money when they needed it most is nothing short of immoral.

Tonight I figured out what our 2004 payment would have been if we'd been in at the full level, and we came up short by about 10 thousand dollars due to this. How many have been excluded from a payout totally? I know people who are flat broke and still didn't get a dime. If they'd been in at a higher level would they have gotten a payout?

This is unacceptable. Totally. Apparently there are people who are appealing this, but in my opinion, individuals shouldn't have to do so. If this government is truly a moral and just institution, they should go back over the records, and retroactively put all participants at the higher level of coverage where they would have been if they hadn't been misled into thinking they needed a deposit they couldn't afford.

end of rant.

[kato]

moral, just, government. Three words you don't see together often eh? That's what Mr Harper and friends tell us they are, so let's see it. Bring it on boys!

[coppertop]

kato CAIS is a prime example of a government program put together by bureaucrats who had no concept of how farms operate financially.

[farmers_son]

Although the government should take the initiative and review all those previous claims and I do agree when you point out “the unfairness of the situation where the very people who needed this program the most were excluded from full participation exactly because they didn't have extra money when they needed it..” I think producers need to realize that one of the policy goals of CAIS is to put small and medium sized farmers out of business. Coppertop: I disagree when you say bureaucrats have no concept of how farmers operate financially. I think they know exactly how farmers operate and the program was specifically designed to squeeze small and medium sized farms. If you need an illustration one example would be the removal of the cap on maximum payments which resulted in shifting the bulk of the benefits from the small/medium sized diversified farm to the large intensive single enterprise operations. The requirement of a cash deposit is another example of how the program was designed to challenge small/medium farms.

I would encourage you to have CAIS review your 2004 application? I think it worth a try and they might do it as the margin requirements were certainly being discussed back then. Although I cannot recall dates in Alberta we were being told for some time not to put any money in a CAIS account until the issue of deposits was dealt with.

[grassfarmer]

So is that a Manitoba difference Kato, In Alberta they said they needed the deposit up front but we never had to make it. By the time they got around to working it out the need for a deposit was scrapped. I opened a CAIS bank account in good time but have never used it.

[Ron]

I never made a deposit, I figured I would ride the program out as long as possible and if I went into a claim position I would make the deposit then. I was told this year that alberta is adjusting all coverage levels up to 100% and reprocessing all old claims. I assumed it was like this all over.

[madcow]

I run a small diversified farm, beef ,sheep, blue berries, Christmas trees and grief. you're right ,it seems the CAIS program is suited to put the little guys out. With a mix like I have my margins are never too high but I always got by. When CAIS came along I(and most of the rest of us in N.S.) didn't qualify for an interim payment, then didn't qualify for a final payment. We met with Minister Mitchell and along came the "special advance payment to the ruminant industry". We asked how we would qualify to keep that $$ if we didn't qualify for a regular payment.We were told take it , if it's an over payment it will be recovered from future payments and interest free in the mean time.nearly all of us who took the special advance and over 31% of all CAIS accounts in the province have been asked to make repayments. Those with an over payment on an interim or final payment have 30 days interest free and a 90 day option to appeal.Those with a Special Advance overpayment, and that's most of us , are required to repay 90% or more of the payment, they want every cent of mine. The KIND government has given us to Dec 31/06 interest free to make repayment plans, and no appeal option.This region is way out of whack with the rest of the country's 5-6% repayment rate at over 31% here being asked for $$ back. 50% of farms here have some beef on it and I expect those are the 31% of the total ,, so, 61% of beef farms require repayment and most of the remaining 39% didn't take the program in the first place because we all could see where it was heading.My horoscope says I should buy a lotto ticket,,,,off to the store. end of my rant,, liked your rant!

[PureCountry]

I have to agree with f_son on this one. It was designed to push the little and medium sized farms out, which is exactly why we refused to apply. If times get tough, we'll bail our own water out of our own boat, with our own damn bucket. Even if it means working off the farm longer than I'd like to.

[coppertop]

I have done exactly the same PureCountry. I hope that CAIS does finally help those who really are in dire straits, but at this point I am managing to keep going without all the confusion and accountant costs.

[kato]

Yes, we were told also that we didn't need the deposit right away, but that was always well after the coverage level had been selected. They would let everyone commit to a level, and at the last minute say that the deposit wasn't needed, but that it would definitely be needed the next year. Also the requirement for a deposit has never been left off the official application forms either, that I have ever seen.

In my opinion what has been done is in the simplest terms, fraud. And besides, if Alberta really is going back and upgrading their own claims that makes it even more of a kick in the butt for those of us in other provinces.

Could this be a case for a class action suit????

[PureCountry]

Two words - Proof and Evidence.

[rose13]

We also got an overpayment notice.
So now we are for a BSE LOAN and a CAIS repayment. We are at the breaking point. Why do crop farmers get the cash and demand more while we get LOANS and repayments? All farm sectors are in dire straits and the rural areas are decreasing in size. Why not a $/acre farmed, wether it be beef, sheep, hog, or crop. But it would be on farmed not leased, what is actually worked by the farmer?

[cattleman2]

Rose: the per acreage payment just doesn't work either. You have landbases in eastern AB or in SK (or any other province for that matter) that are required to be quite large to run livestock due to rainfall and production capabilites. Should that person get mote than myself who owns little land, but pays a custom feedbill to someone to grass my cows, while I am trying to build my land base?

We came up with a novel concept at work here for the $1.0B government money to be handed out. It should be on a percentage of Expenses instead of revenue. Everyone complains that revenue is low, margins are negative, therefore they don't qualify for funds like they should. Everyone seems to put in all their expenses though...

[mb_rancher]

Kato,


I took the higher coverage but still was unable to get a payment out of CAIS. They keep saying my inventory is tooo high, but really it isnt it just so happens when they slap their value on it they seem to be worth a lot more.

[grassfarmer]

Sorry to hear it's not worked for some folks that needed it. It worked for us - for 03 anyway. From the start my accountant advised to take the maximum coverage, which we did. Didn't any of you have NISA funds built up to pay a deposit? I only had a very small sum in it because I wasn't here for long before CAIS came in. Some times I reckon a good accountant is a wise investment.