Another CAIS beef!!

[WoolyBear]

Some of the shiny machinery/truck trailer owners are doing well. They have their birds in a row, and are having fun doing their thing. Some of the others are in so deep that their belief is that they will have fun while it lasts, and then there is the next group that have the off farm jobs in the oil patch. I hope that the oil rush lasts long enough for them to pay for it all.

I don't begrudge anyone their possessions, I personally wish others wouldn't judge a man's (woman's) ambition by their belongins (or lack of).

[kpb]

grassfarmer, have you not realized yet that the guys doing well are the ones that don't farm or ranch full time? I'll bet you that fewer than one in four on this site are full-time, only-source-of-income-is-cattle ranchers. I've raised this on this site a few times and been thumped both times but I'll say it again--there is a world of difference between making your only living off the farm and supporting yourself and your loved ones and having a farm as a part-time job.

I don't begrudge anyone's opinion on cattle but the simple fact is that there are fewer and fewer people trying to make their sole living off the land. I think that agriculture should be a full-time job but it gets harder for people to make a decent living.

Anyone can post on this site and most have interesting and useful information but I confess that I read the ones that are in it full-time more closely, with more interest than the others. Why? Because these are the guys, like myself, that are in the frying pan. Like I said before it's the difference between a slaughter pig and a laying hen--the hen is interested in farming but the pig is committed. I suspect it is the hen-type who are owning the big, fancy trucks--along with 30 head of cows-- and calling themslves ranchers. All hat and no cattle.

kpb

k

[grassfarmer]

I didn't mean to turn this into counting who spends on new trucks and who doesn't - I couldn't care less if some guys like them wheras I don't.

Off farm income and oilfield money isn't the only reason for the machinery habit though kpb. I know one outfit here quite well, good tidy operators on 800 acres, 80-90 cows, sell weaned calves. Grow their own feed, sell a bit grain and hay in good years and have a couple of oil leases on their land. Father and son both have big new trucks and no off farm income. That is just an example and I know many in Scotland that were the same. Good all round operators but any money they make in good years gets spent at the machinery dealers in town. To me that's like not watching your input costs, buying hay at 5c/lb when you could get it for 3c/lb.

I'm not so sure any of us are by necessity making our living off the farm any longer. It's easy to categorize the guy that draws a pay check off farm but in reality are we any different kpb? You may think we are not but I have been through the process, sold the farm, had the cheque in my pocket and decided to reinvest it in agriculture. So I didn't have to make my living off my farm again - but I chose to. You know if you sold up you would get a cheque that you could invest wisely and make more than you will farming, yet you still farm. So technically you don't have to depend on making a living from the farm - you choose to.

[kpb]

grassfarmer, I think you're right--if I sell the farm down here I don't have to make a living farming. So I guess it is a choice I make.

Having said that, it is a choice that I've made. I am most interested in keeping farming and ranching as viable options in today's economy and I'm always interested in how my peers are keeping things together. It bothers me more than I can tell you that so many guys are obliged to work off the farm. We are in an essential industry and I hate to see society, in general, treat us with such disdain. It bugs the heck out of me. I don't want more handouts--I don't think they benefit us in the long run--I just want a decent and reliable price for my product. Cripes is that too much to ask?

kpb

[coppertop]

all hat and no cattle may in fact be more desirable than waking up every morning with the banker beside a person !!!

[cowman]

How much land, cattle, machinery...assetts do you need to make a viable, stand alone farm? For one person? A couple? A family...with perhaps adult children farming also?
How do you want to live?
There are about a million ways to make money in this old world and a job working for someone else is only one of them?
Example: Was talking to this kid down at UFA the other day. Needed to make money to get through college so started this little yard care business. A used truck, trailer, couple of lawn mowers. Made so much money last year that he now has two outfits on the road and three summer employees!
Now personally I have a hard time considering a hog barn factory "farming"? Don't know how much different that is than owning a welding shop or something similar?
Business is business and whether you need to call yourself "farmer" or "rancher" or "yardcare service" doesn't really matter as long as it is a business and you are making money?
Obviously people don't have a problem paying to have their lawns cut and yard taken care of, but they seem to have a problem paying enough for food for the farmer to earn a decent living? Quite frankly the returns in agriculture just aren't enough for the investment in time, labor and capital? So why do we do it?
I would never be too impressed by the big truck and shiny new trailer...in a lot of cases the bank owns them anyway! And being realistic, a good well maintained truck and trailer gets the job done just as well at a lot less cost? And in agricultural business it really is all about keeping costs low. Just my opinion.

[coppertop]

I agree cowman. I don't feel that its any of my business what the neighbours spend their money on, whether its a new pickup and trailer or a mansion.
Everyone has different priorities on how they spend their income. My priority is paying my bills on time, keeping my house and buldings maintained and having a reliable vehicle that gets me where I need to go and back home again.

I live in a community where Lexus SUV's, Hummers, Escalades etc. are a common sight. I suspect that they are leased as a tax write off, but that too is none of my business.

[kato]

Grassfarmer, by good years, I meant that we were paying the bills. We were also putting any excess cash into expanding the cowherd. In those years, NISA was looking like any money we put into it would stay there forever, since we went for five years without coming close to triggering a payout. Even though they would match out deposits, we couldn't see how we could ever access the money. Some of the cattle we bought during those years did double our money.

It's funny how that worked out. We put our money into cattle, so we didn't put it into NISA, so therefore CAIS worked for us, but we didn't have any money for the CAIS deposit. Go figure. We were among those who did benefit from the program, due to this expansion, even though in retrospect, we didn't benefit as much as we could have.

We were totally dependent on cattle when the border closed, and went from being able to see the day, within several years, when the debt on our operation could be retired, to the situation we are in now, where we are looking at yet another mortgage to repay.

My bigger concern about this coverage level mess is for those who didn't scramble through it like we did. How about those who have lost their cows, rented or sold there land, or even lost their farms over this? I'm sure they are out there.

[kato]

Maybe this will help some people out a bit.

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO DEFER COLLECTION OF OVERPAYMENTS TO FARMERS
CALGARY, Alberta, May 5, 2006 - Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and Minister for the Canadian Wheat Board Chuck Strahl announced today that effective immediately, the department will defer collection of overpayments made to individual farmers under the Canadian Agricultural Income Stabilization (CAIS) program. In addition, interest will not be charged on overpayments until January 1, 2007.

"I'm pleased to announce today that where we deliver CAIS, we will not collect on CAIS overpayments until we've sorted out how much more money each farmer is eligible for as a result of our changes," said Minister Strahl. "It just makes good sense and good business sense to not give with one hand to take with another."

This announcement applies where the federal government delivers the CAIS program: British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador and the Yukon Territory.

In Budget 2006, the government announced an adjusted method of inventory valuation and expanded negative margin coverage that will result in a significant increase in money flowing to farmers. These adjustments represent a down payment on a new income stabilization program that will replace CAIS and which will be simpler, responsive, and bankable.

"One of the things I heard loud and clear when meeting farmers across the country was that the CAIS program isn't working for producers," added Minister Strahl. "What we've done is taken the decision to pursue a new direction that will take us to a stable and prosperous future."