ABP Magazine

[rkaiser]

21 bucks hey - Now cowman is that 21 dollars of profit on each head processed - or is it 21 dollars on those which enter the box for the USA, or 21 bucks on those which enter the truck for Quebec. Do they add on the profits from their own trucking lines (or is this another money loosing venture on their part). Does the 21 bucks include the profits made at the many burger making plants and other processing companies that Cargill and Tyson now own. I can get you a price list whenever you like cowman for Cargill's wholesale price in FOB the plant in High River. I guarantee that that price includes a little more than 21 bucks for each head killed.

Figures like the 21 bucks that cowman AND Ag Canada believe as gospel are so easy to dispel, yet ABP- Cowman and the wise and all knowing CCA (according to the editor of Alberta Beef Magazine )take these figures and make Cargill and Tyson Foods look like the white knights out to save the cattle industry even if it means their very lives are at stake. LOL.

Let's just say that it is 21 bucks for a moment. 21 bucks times 4000 head per day equals $84000.00. That's about 25 million dollars of profit per year. Is that enough cowman. Or should we lobby the government to allow more profit to Cargill and Tyson. How much would it cost to build the high river plant cowman - or better yet, how much did it cost them and YOU and ME and the TAXPAYERS OF ALBERTA.

I talked of 4000 head per day but some will say that Cargill and Tyson are only operating at 70% capacity. Why is that. There is enough demand for Canadian beef in this world that we could have Cargill and Tyson running at full capacity every day. However --- without BSE testing to open these markets that remain closed - Cargill and Tyson are in the enviable position of a captive market. Not only in Canada but in the USA as well. Is that a bad thing for Cargill and Tyson? Obviously not. They would rather make 21 bucks per head on 70% of 4000 than than run the risk of losing the captive Canadian and Norht American market to a free and demand driven marketplace. Talk about commnunism - talk about abuse. The system stinks boys and Ostercamp opened the window.

I am soooo sorry you wasted you 100 bucks on BIG C cowman. I am sooooo sorry. Cam and I and every other dipshit who spent a lot more than 100 bucks should not have wasted our time. We should have joined the rest of the cheerleaders and lifted our pompoms when Tyson and Cargill ****d the producers of this country. Nilsen Bros.
has shown the world how much they gained through BSEconomics by buying into the American oligopoly (for now). They will sell out in time as well and APBCCA will someday only have to defend one packing monopoly when rouges like Ostercamp come along. Save some time at the meetings. "Cargill rather than Cargill and Tyson foods are here to save the producers of this country" LOL.-------- Cargill and Tyson are more shrewd with their figures --- 21 bucks LOL.

I don't like the fact that Manitoba is not putting the producers in a position of ownership for their 2 bucks per head Chris. Is this truly the case? Is the levy going only to the investors and the plant itself? Or will the producers see more than a hope of value from the plants potential?

[kpb]

I think blackjack has the best take on this. There is no doubt in my mind that the concentration in the packing industry is killing the cow-calf guy. It's already killed the small feedlot owner.

But blackjack is right, how can we expect the government to support any initiative towards producer-owned plants when we can't even agree amongst ourselves to support this? I know emerald and grassfarmer and others will try to tell me that it is somehow the fault of the everyday producer that we have producer groups that do not reflect our interests or advance our causes. I don't buy that argument--to me if you get elected to represent the cow-calf guy's interest than, by gum, you have an obligation to do it.

These producer groups should all be disbanded, as I've said before. They not only do not represent our interests--they take our money and use it against us. Every time one of these guys comes on the radio and tells me how wonderful it is that they are working to open more export markets it makes me puke. Opening more markets when we have no control over the packing industry benefits no one but the packers. Prices will not rise for the cow-calf guy if more markets are opened because, as farmers_son has said repeatedly, the markets are controlled and manipulated.

As long as we have guys who supposedly represent us telling the government that everything is fine than we are just totally knackered. We have no credibility with the politicians. By the way I see the Salmon Arm plant has closed its doors.


kpb

[rkaiser]

How can there be so many like minded folks here on Agriville yet the editor of Alberta Beef Magazine says that the wise minds at ABP/CCA prevail. LOL

Thank God for a little rain hey boys - I'm on my third vodka and clamato since it started. Funny how us dipshits who depend on only a cheque from our pathetic "nature dictated" "multinational ruled" commodity celebrate things like that. Cargill will get their 21 bucks tomorrow - cowman will get his oil cheque (and maybe waste it on a renewal of his BIG C membership), and ABP/ CCA will continue to collect their 3 bucks a head.

Great post kpb. I hope the closet ABP/CCA folks are tuning in tonight. I might have a bit more to say after that 4th caesar.

[grassfarmer]

kpb, Yes i'll tell you that we,as producers, are the ONLY people that can change the representation we get through ABP. Don't for a second think that that means I back the majority of the current ABP people because I don't. 50% of ABP reps get elected every year - if the majority (probably only 10 or 15% of eligible voters) turned up for the next two years fall meetings we could replace every clown on the payroll. It's that simple - one meeting per year for two years to attend and even that seems too much of a committment for most people.

That said even if ABP were lobbying on our behalf instead of against us I wonder if the Alberta Government would listen to them as much as they do now? Perhaps lobbying the Federal Government might be a better bet?

The point you make about packer concentration killing small feedlots and cow /calf guys is so obviously correct yet the ABP claim not to believe this. The ABP/Cowman claims that the packer business is losing money showing that it's a good job we didn't get involved in it is the wrong conclusion. If the packers were to lose money they bid less on fed cattle, feedlots take a hit and tighten their belts which means they pay less for calves but who does the cow/calf man pass the loss onto? No-one it's his loss. And then Cowman sits here and whines about how hopeless it is to make money off cows but refuses to accept that packer concentration has anything to do with the problem. Still, a belief that we are better off with no government interference will carry us through better than holding onto the cows tail eh? Never mind that Cargill, Tyson and co were all funded, subsidized and encouraged by the same Alberta Government that refuses to extend the Alberta advantage to Alberta producers.
We have been sold out, lock stock and barrel.

[grassfarmer]

Randy, I heard a prime 2 year old dairy heifer that had never calved (infertile) was sold from this area recently - 31 cents/lb for 1450lbs. Now if they only make $21 on that one what will a steak sandwich cost? $1?, $2?

[rkaiser]

Well Grassfarmer - now that I am back in your ABP zone - we're at least going to have a lively night or two next fall. And ya - I'll stay out of the Vodka on those happy happy evenings.

[gwf]

I wondered how long it would take to have this topic discussed again. I cancelled my subscription to Alberta Beef sometime ago. I like Lee Gunderson as a decent, clever and caring individual, but unfortunately he doesn’t call all the shot at the magazine. One of the few articles to appear in the magazine on producer funded packing had to be paid for. Ten parties put up $250 each. I am sure the support from the ABP for the magazine must be worth more than this. If one is going to pick sides, you will likely go with the one that is in the drivers seat. The ABP.

The original proposal that BIG-C adopted, called for a levy on all cattle to finance the capital requirements necessary to build and support new and/or existing facilities provided the product was marketed other than the US. The reason for this was to not be in competition with existing processors and at the same time provide an alternative market for our beef products with the least amount of risk. It was proposed that the corporate vehicle would be a public company that would provide liquidity for investor’s head levy. It was never the intention to have producers directly involved in the operation of the plant. Cargill and Tyson are going to be around for quite a while and they are playing, and will continue to play a big part in exporting most of our beef. We have an over supply of cattle for the present markets to utilize, and it would appear that Cargill/Tyson will continue to look to the US for their main market.

Calf prices this fall scare me. The feedlots have pulled their horns in on the prices that they can afford to pay. Most backgrounders have lost money the past three years, so they are not going to be too bullish in the near future. It all comes back to the cow/calf producer who is at the end of the line.

[rkaiser]

Thanks for that gwf - any rain down yer way ---- if so how's the whiskey --- or vodka - or whatever.

Hope things are well with you.

Randallofsky - the Rcalf supporting socialist LOL

[cowman]

randy: The $21 was the difference between the wholesale carcass beef price and the daily quote on live cattle. I am assuming they are talking AAA or AA steers? Consider that if the price rose 2 cents on live cattle, without a corresponding rise in wholsale...the packer would then be into negative margins? Now I don't know if Ag Canada is cooking the books or not...I like to believe they are telling the truth?
I am sure Cargill adds value to their product when they can and probably has found they can supply some of their own services to cut costs, eg. trucking? But bottom line is the packing business? I don't think we can include all the subsiduaries or maybe we should be throwing in the grain and fertilizer business too?
I have no idea where anyone ever got the idea I support in any way the ABP? I don't even get the newsletter! Somewhere in the ABP files I am probably labelled as a total traitor! The ABP is just another cost of doing business in my opinion...another tax if you will. I spent time and money trying to get rid of them back in the early nineties...probably as much as you did promoting BIG C! That didn't work.
I guess one thing is very clear though? Manitoba will get a packing house. The great experiment will take place! We'll all just have to wait for the results.

[cowman]

kpb: Sorry to hear Salmon Arm closed. When Ed Paul came to the mart cow prices went up right now! He bought a fair number of cull cows in central Alberta, for awhile!
Not sure who in the end owned Salmon Arm? I know they were offering shares but I think in the end only a few big boys owned it? I heard basically Ed was the main owner? I guess he'll have to regroup back to his bar business! Never a loss in the booze business!