ABP Magazine

[grassfarmer]

Got the ABP magazine,sorry Alberta Beef magazine,today and was majorly disillusioned. The editorial is about how stupid the people and Government in Manitoba are to be trying to build a packing plant using checkoff dollars. On the other hand praising how smart the Alberta Government and ABP were to resist calls by "some other organisations" to try to build producer owned slaughter plants. Clearly they believe the Cowman theory that because the packers claim to be losing money on cattle they are killing at the moment there is no future in cattle processing.

How can we be so stupid - remember less than 3 years ago the desperate situation of nowhere to kill cattle and talking about digging a big hole to put cattle in. We were determined never to be in the same position again - and here we are, lesson forgotton. We still lack competition in bids for both over and under 30 month cattle.

The only bright light they highlighted was the new Balzac plant built by free enterprise Albertan's with deep pockets. Fair enough, I'm pleased for this independant plant but I still think it is wrong that several ABP directors bought their $100k stakes in this and sat at the same time and voted down any possibility of everyday Alberta producers having a chance of a stake in a packer owned plant. They are entitled to their views but I think that was a conflict of interest and they should not have been participating in the debate.

I think this magazine is a disgrace and owes a big apology to the likes of Cam Ostercamp and co. The same magazine that ran stories on Mark Purdies BSE theory, the case for BSE testing, Gunnerson was even the person who posted Ostercamps article on his personal website before most of us had even heard of him. What happened? was all that just a cheap attempt to sell more magazines? So much for their constant claptrap about old time values and loyalty etc etc.

[cowman]

I did not read the article, but I don't see where there was a problem if you WANTED to invest in a plant? There were several proposals out there? The only reason they didn't go was because people would not invest their money in them?
I believe Manitoba producers were invited to invest? They chose not to? And now their government has decided they will be forced to? Doesn't that ring a few warning bells about that whole deal?

[coppertop]

cowman, I suspect that not too many cattlemen have had extra dollars to invest. eg: the CAIS payments that were used to pay loans and operating expenses and are no;w supposed to be paid back.
I have heard a rumor from a reliable source that the AB. government is considering putting seed money into a biofuel plant which will utilize agricultural products, and will in a roundabout way help the ag industry, but, I am having difficulty understanding the difference between putting seed money into that sort of plant and a slaughter plant. On one side it will help the grain and oilseed industry, on the other it would have benefitted the cattle industry. Mind you, this is only at the rumor stage so maybe it will not materialize.

[rkaiser]

I only wish I had the time to continue this arguement.

The magazine speaks of a group wanting to up the checkoff to fund slaughter capacity. Did any one of you ever see or hear of a group like that? I never did.

What i DID SEE WAS A GROUP FIGHTING TO CREATE A CANADIAN WIDE LEVY (seperate from the multinationalpackerasskissing ABPCCA) TO BUILD SLAUGHTER CAPACITY THAT WOULD BE OWNED BY THOSE VERY PRODUCERS THAT PAID THE LEVY. And Yes, I supported a mandatory levy as it could have made major changes to the industry that would have and could benefit all of the producers of this country. The group that I am speaking about supported and suggested BSE testing for export marketing potential. We supported and suggested stopping the captive Canadian, and or North American salmon run market by taking beef off of this continent.

But as the editor of the magazine puts it, "wiser minds prevailed." Cargill and Tyson now control over 80% of the slaughter capacity in Canada and along with the other American players can keep the Canadian market right where they want it. Do they truely want to open the market to Japan or other Eastern Asian countries? I think not.

I will admit right here and now that margins in the packing industry are usually tight. Salmon runs like the fat cattle market prior to the open border to live fats and feeders, and the current cull cow salmon run don't come along that often. Cargill and Tyson know that. Therefore the need to take a chance exporting beef while they have a North American captive supply that is guaranteeing them even cowmans 21 dollar profit is too risky.

Think about it folks. Supply and demand run this industry like no other. Free marketing (at least at the producer level) is how this thing is run. The cheaper that packers can get the cattle the better. The longer there is this over supply of cattle, the longer the cheap cattle remain.

We did have a chance to take back some control of our industry, and this opportunity is actually still there. Manitoba cannot do it on their own, and the media will jump all over the negatives of the situation now. Brag about the ranchers plant at Balzac - sure, but as coppertop says, how many ranchers had that same opportunity to invest? I hope like hell they make it and plan to support them any way I can.

I will not say that the Manitoba plan is perfect. It is a lot different than what BIG C spoke of. But it sure the hell beats bending over for Cargill and Tyson the way that ABP and the supposed capitalist government of Alberta have.

Congradulations cowman - ABP - CCA etc. etc. YOU ARE THE WISE prevailing minds LOL. You got her all figured out.

[coppertop]

Excellent post Randy. I too wish the folks in Manitoba all the best in their endeavor. Hopefully some of the other initiatives here in Alberta will get up and running, particularly the one at Acheson. I know of several people in this area that invested in it, and at least four of the operations have now sold all their cattle.

[cowman]

Randy:First of all you got a few things wrong...The $21 is not my figure...it is Alberta Ags?
Secondly: The boy threw in my $100 bucks, so I guess I supported the "concept" behind BIG C! As long as that concept was this(and I thought that was what it was): A checkoff on cull cattle slaughtered at a BIG C plant...not on the cattle slaughtered at Cargill/Tyson! For every cow of mine slaughtered I would recieve a small piece of equity in said plant? Was I reading it wrong, or was this not what was being expoused?
And yes bridge financing from the government.
We had a great debate here about whether to toss the $100 into the ring. I thought it was probably a total waste of money, the boy thought we had to try? I guess I was right...but you have to let these young guys learn?
I still think Ostercamp had it basically right.

[mb_rancher]

Hey Randy,

Dont ya think we should both get a high priced job like cowman with an oil company so we could sit around and rub shoulders and praise ABP.

I supported the BIG C levy but i sure as hell dont like the way the NDP govt. is shoving this new levy down our throats. If you were considered a share member with each $2 paid then yes I could see it, but not the way it is set up now. We had already sunk a few $$ into the Dauphin plant but after the govt came up with this idea of a levy we pulled that money back out.

[blackjack]

...unless all the cowboys were willing to back a new plant it would just become the next new plant for the big two...and then they would buy(the plant thankyou very much) at their price ...take a look at the fed cattle slaughtering rate...down 35% from last year...feeder and fed cattle move to where the price is the highest...what happens if as soon as the plant is built the usa opens its doors to otm's...our biggest problem is getting rid of the beef not the slaughtering capacity ...and as long as we rely on other countries to buy our beef...we will have a noose around our necks...

[grassfarmer]

That needn't be the way of it - rkaiser mentioned the 80% of kill done by the big two. I think that's an underestimate, but regardless, many industries in many countries around the world would not be allowed to run in this way. Government would step in and order them to dispose of some of their capacity as this level of non competition is clearly very unhealthy.

[blackjack]

...it is hard not to disagree grassfarmer...but the cow-calf man has gave up most of his clout in relaying the message to the politicians...when guys like ostercamp stand up and tell how it is... and then his supposedly fellow producers ridicule him for it...you are not only up against pathetic government policy but as well as group of well oiled producers that are obviously quite happy with the status quo...

[rkaiser]

21 bucks hey - Now cowman is that 21 dollars of profit on each head processed - or is it 21 dollars on those which enter the box for the USA, or 21 bucks on those which enter the truck for Quebec. Do they add on the profits from their own trucking lines (or is this another money loosing venture on their part). Does the 21 bucks include the profits made at the many burger making plants and other processing companies that Cargill and Tyson now own. I can get you a price list whenever you like cowman for Cargill's wholesale price in FOB the plant in High River. I guarantee that that price includes a little more than 21 bucks for each head killed.

Figures like the 21 bucks that cowman AND Ag Canada believe as gospel are so easy to dispel, yet ABP- Cowman and the wise and all knowing CCA (according to the editor of Alberta Beef Magazine )take these figures and make Cargill and Tyson Foods look like the white knights out to save the cattle industry even if it means their very lives are at stake. LOL.

Let's just say that it is 21 bucks for a moment. 21 bucks times 4000 head per day equals $84000.00. That's about 25 million dollars of profit per year. Is that enough cowman. Or should we lobby the government to allow more profit to Cargill and Tyson. How much would it cost to build the high river plant cowman - or better yet, how much did it cost them and YOU and ME and the TAXPAYERS OF ALBERTA.

I talked of 4000 head per day but some will say that Cargill and Tyson are only operating at 70% capacity. Why is that. There is enough demand for Canadian beef in this world that we could have Cargill and Tyson running at full capacity every day. However --- without BSE testing to open these markets that remain closed - Cargill and Tyson are in the enviable position of a captive market. Not only in Canada but in the USA as well. Is that a bad thing for Cargill and Tyson? Obviously not. They would rather make 21 bucks per head on 70% of 4000 than than run the risk of losing the captive Canadian and Norht American market to a free and demand driven marketplace. Talk about commnunism - talk about abuse. The system stinks boys and Ostercamp opened the window.

I am soooo sorry you wasted you 100 bucks on BIG C cowman. I am sooooo sorry. Cam and I and every other dipshit who spent a lot more than 100 bucks should not have wasted our time. We should have joined the rest of the cheerleaders and lifted our pompoms when Tyson and Cargill ****d the producers of this country. Nilsen Bros.
has shown the world how much they gained through BSEconomics by buying into the American oligopoly (for now). They will sell out in time as well and APBCCA will someday only have to defend one packing monopoly when rouges like Ostercamp come along. Save some time at the meetings. "Cargill rather than Cargill and Tyson foods are here to save the producers of this country" LOL.-------- Cargill and Tyson are more shrewd with their figures --- 21 bucks LOL.

I don't like the fact that Manitoba is not putting the producers in a position of ownership for their 2 bucks per head Chris. Is this truly the case? Is the levy going only to the investors and the plant itself? Or will the producers see more than a hope of value from the plants potential?

[kpb]

I think blackjack has the best take on this. There is no doubt in my mind that the concentration in the packing industry is killing the cow-calf guy. It's already killed the small feedlot owner.

But blackjack is right, how can we expect the government to support any initiative towards producer-owned plants when we can't even agree amongst ourselves to support this? I know emerald and grassfarmer and others will try to tell me that it is somehow the fault of the everyday producer that we have producer groups that do not reflect our interests or advance our causes. I don't buy that argument--to me if you get elected to represent the cow-calf guy's interest than, by gum, you have an obligation to do it.

These producer groups should all be disbanded, as I've said before. They not only do not represent our interests--they take our money and use it against us. Every time one of these guys comes on the radio and tells me how wonderful it is that they are working to open more export markets it makes me puke. Opening more markets when we have no control over the packing industry benefits no one but the packers. Prices will not rise for the cow-calf guy if more markets are opened because, as farmers_son has said repeatedly, the markets are controlled and manipulated.

As long as we have guys who supposedly represent us telling the government that everything is fine than we are just totally knackered. We have no credibility with the politicians. By the way I see the Salmon Arm plant has closed its doors.


kpb

[rkaiser]

How can there be so many like minded folks here on Agriville yet the editor of Alberta Beef Magazine says that the wise minds at ABP/CCA prevail. LOL

Thank God for a little rain hey boys - I'm on my third vodka and clamato since it started. Funny how us dipshits who depend on only a cheque from our pathetic "nature dictated" "multinational ruled" commodity celebrate things like that. Cargill will get their 21 bucks tomorrow - cowman will get his oil cheque (and maybe waste it on a renewal of his BIG C membership), and ABP/ CCA will continue to collect their 3 bucks a head.

Great post kpb. I hope the closet ABP/CCA folks are tuning in tonight. I might have a bit more to say after that 4th caesar.

[grassfarmer]

kpb, Yes i'll tell you that we,as producers, are the ONLY people that can change the representation we get through ABP. Don't for a second think that that means I back the majority of the current ABP people because I don't. 50% of ABP reps get elected every year - if the majority (probably only 10 or 15% of eligible voters) turned up for the next two years fall meetings we could replace every clown on the payroll. It's that simple - one meeting per year for two years to attend and even that seems too much of a committment for most people.

That said even if ABP were lobbying on our behalf instead of against us I wonder if the Alberta Government would listen to them as much as they do now? Perhaps lobbying the Federal Government might be a better bet?

The point you make about packer concentration killing small feedlots and cow /calf guys is so obviously correct yet the ABP claim not to believe this. The ABP/Cowman claims that the packer business is losing money showing that it's a good job we didn't get involved in it is the wrong conclusion. If the packers were to lose money they bid less on fed cattle, feedlots take a hit and tighten their belts which means they pay less for calves but who does the cow/calf man pass the loss onto? No-one it's his loss. And then Cowman sits here and whines about how hopeless it is to make money off cows but refuses to accept that packer concentration has anything to do with the problem. Still, a belief that we are better off with no government interference will carry us through better than holding onto the cows tail eh? Never mind that Cargill, Tyson and co were all funded, subsidized and encouraged by the same Alberta Government that refuses to extend the Alberta advantage to Alberta producers.
We have been sold out, lock stock and barrel.

[grassfarmer]

Randy, I heard a prime 2 year old dairy heifer that had never calved (infertile) was sold from this area recently - 31 cents/lb for 1450lbs. Now if they only make $21 on that one what will a steak sandwich cost? $1?, $2?