Finally some rain!

[Rodjam]

Just had a nice evening of rain with several heavy clouds unload over a 4 hour period. It is the first real good rain for us this spring here just north of Lacombe.

[cowman]

Just got a light shower east of Red Deer, but it was pretty black to the north and south west. At least it settled the dust!
Pastures continue to grow well and hay is coming along well with the recent heat, but could certainly use a decent rain. Lots of crops coming up and most seeding is completed.

[grassfarmer]

Got a few cloudbursts at Rimbey too - about 1/4 inch. We already had 8/10ths in May prior to this and 7/10ths in April so are in good shape. Looked dusty and dry on top last week but there was plenty moisture in the soil if you dug down. Grass growth has been phenominal this last week on well managed pastures, at least a week ahead of last year

[cowman]

Glad it is working for you grass farmer! I considered asking you a question about nutrient value of gray wooded soils...but am reluctant...as I am tired of getting smeared on here as some sort of complete jerk(which is pretty typical lately!)!
Perhaps, somewhere down the road we could estabish a private conversation? I do believe you have some info that might benifit me?

[rkaiser]

Oh come now cowman - who's smearin ya. You love it anyways. Who else but you would start a thread defending packer profits knowing the wingnuts that frequent this site?

[grassfarmer]

Oh, I doubt I've any information that will benefit you Cowman, but fire away anyway I've always got an opinion!
We may be out in the sticks here but the majority of my soil is actually deep black loam, as black as anything in Red Deer county I'm sure. We do have a little grey wooded close to the bush areas.

[wd40]

My My - Cowman - if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen. Anyone who believes the lies that come from a packers mouth, who forgets the mega dollars that they have made in the past, and CHOOSES to ignore the fact that Cargil won't build a mega dollar plant unless they can capitalize it out in 3 to 5 yrs. while you take out a 25 yr. morgage and hope your son can survive the crappie ag business while he works the oil patch to survive, and yet still bleeds for the packer when they whine a little, - is no friend to the future of our beef industry.

[cowman]

wd40: A friend of the future beef industry? Not sure what you are talking about here as I don't think the beef industry has a lot of future...other than more integration by the big packers...but whatever! I think the writing is on the wall, but obviously a lot here don't. Which is okay, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Grassfarmer: A long time ago a guy up around Hoadley told me that on grey wooded soil the grass almost totally lost all its nutrient value by about September. Now I don't know if he had a clue what he was talking about, but he had been running cattle up there for years? He claimed about Sept. 15 he had to supplement his cows or they would practically starve to death before winter! I just wanted to ask if you had ever heard anything like this?

[coppertop]

It may be a copper deficiency on that particular area cowman. In my area which is north west of Hoadley cattle come off pastures in October in good shape providing they have been on well managed pastures, and had adequate mineral supplements available.
There was one farm in this area that had cows literally starving, the U of A sent out experts to check the cattle, and found a severe copper deficiency due to a lack of it in the soil. Now, that was back in the day where producers threw out a block of blue salt and thought they were meeting the mineral needs of their animals.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, I've never heard that story about grey wooded soils, however as they were developed under cool,humid conditions the surface layer tends to be leached of clay and plant nutrients. Given that, it would make sense that grass grown on these soils is likely to be lacking in nutrients. If cattle are hauled in from the drier
south to the wetter grey wooded areas the nutrients in the grass will be more dilute than the cows are used to anyway. There may be specific mineral shortage or tie up issues peculiar to the grey wooded soil that I'm not familier with. If it's mineral problem I don't know why it would show up in September and not earlier in the season - generally the lush wet grass in June/ July would be of lower mineral content than that in September. Nutrient value in the grass in terms of protein etc would on the other hand be higher in June and lower by fall.

More typical problems with the same symptoms you report "He claimed about Sept. 15 he had to supplement his cows or they would practically starve to death before winter!" are that they were out of grass in late August! This is a ommon problem up here on the vast majority of pastures that are still traditionally "managed"(ie managed by the cow) Conventional remedy - supplement with hay for about 7 months!

My suggested remedy: intensive pasture management to double your grass production at little cost, as a bonus
get a proper nutrient cycle going and get more effective use of the sunlight and water that falls on your land. This involves as big a diversity of plant species as you can get - all naturally occurring, no need to reseed. No spraying of toxic chemicals that simplify the plant community and cause the problems above, little or no chemical fertiliser applications as that kills the tons per acres of micro organisms on the soil surface that convert the decaying vegetation into nutrients usable by the plants.
The two main tools I use on my farm are planned grazing and stock density. It's amazing how much you can achieve with these and neither has a cash cost.