packer structure...

[rkaiser]

You know Mr. Wilson, I am usually a very positive person, and I promote the hell out of my cattle and the positive, forward initiative adopted by BIG C in a hopeful positive way.

It's hard to read words like yours calling me naive, and after you didn't like mine back - the packer blamer. BIG C did have a positive plan that was shot down in a very negative way by the ABPCCA that the editor of Alberta Beef Magazine called "the ones with wisdom." Even though he had his story all screwed up.

I guess I should just quit reading crap like Mr. Wilsons or others who say negative things about me. Might keep me on my personally positive road. I actually see most of what I say and do as positive and hopeful for those unfortunate enough to be loosing ground in the industry.

It always grabs peoples attention when people like you use the words whiner or blamer. I use them at times as well, however, some people would see my same opposition as supportive and helpful to those who are not as fortunate or business savy as the likes of Mr. Wilson.

Big Oiler fans in this household as well, but I guess we'll have to wait for one more game to celebrate.

[coppertop]

One positive note Randy is that many people across the country are cheering for the Oilers regardless of which Canadian team they usually cheer for !

I do think you have done and continue to do a lot for the beef industry, not just for your own breed of cattle but the entire industry. Don't let negative comments get to you, just keep on with the postive things you are doing.

[cowman]

Randy: I think cswilson was just trying to point out that Cargill/Tyson are a fact of life, doing business as they see fit and it is very unlikely they are going away? Get used to it.
That doesn't detract in any way from what you are trying to do? Just keep on doing what you do and learn that you are very unlikely to change the world!
I would suggest you are overly "passionate" on this packer thing. If Cargill/Tyson disappeared off the face of the earth tommorrow...some new corporation would step right in! It is the system our federal government likes?

[whiteface]

Randy, I've always been a VERY strong capitalist as you know quite well. Choosing to not go down with a loosing industry when I have no say in what happens with my product makes me "diversified" as some like to call it. You have to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. My head hurts too much from banging it against the wall, and there are days when I sincerely hurt for some of you.
Scott Huber has some some points that I definatly agree with although not nearly enough that I think we could ever be really good friends, which is one of the reasons I don't frequent ranchers anymore, there's no point in argueing with a fool, some might not be able to tell the difference. I still think most people sure don't see me as fool but rather a rational, logical thinker that knows enough to see what is working and what ain't and simply care for my family using commodities that are in demand. Beit ranchgate meat(Been there, done well, just not nearly enough demand for it), National Champions (I've served up many of those as well, but there ain't all that much demand for them, either) or as is the case right now, houses are hot as hell and that's currently what I provide. You can't be angry at me for that. Maybe I shouldn't have made the left-leaning comment, but you all have always liked me for seeing it like it is and not the way I want to. Apparently, I still need to work on my tact though it would seem.
I have respect for many of Scott's ideas even now and same with cs even though, there too, may not be enough common ground for a lifelong friendship, but also as you know, I am open minded enough and do forgive enough that I can always comment favorably and am certainly not too proud to do so, if and when, something catches my eye and prompts me to do it.
I think I did encourage Pure Country to continue to give it his all even though I think he may do alot better with that same enthusiasm pointed somewhere else and incidentally, why are you all bent out of shape over my thoughts anyway? What the hell do you care what I think is my question right back at ya? Still, have a good day, sincerely. Thanks for reading.

[rkaiser]

Just amazes me how folks can come out in defence of a system that has seen the rise, expansion and and obvious profits to do this, in the multinational packing industry while the primary producer has seen the opposite.

The whole thing about being positive and ignoring the situation is even worse. Is Cargill positive at every government and industry meeting that they attend? I guess the are, as long as they keep getting their way. If they are these true capitalist that some tend to believe, why do they not fire the multitude of staff that makes up their lobby at the federal, provincial, and so called "integrated industry" level within the ABPCCA. Give me a break.

When some folks believe that things like BSE testing, or lesser concentration, or less packer ownership MAY HELP THE RANCHERS OF THIS COUNTY - does the lobby group from Cargill and Tyson remain positive. Hell no. They use every negative fear tactic that they can to stop these things that some see as positive.

The route of acceptance that cowman and Mr. Wilson has suggested has sure gotten us far now has it not? There has been no opposition to the needs and wants of the multinational packers in this country for years. Where has this led us. To a farm that has to go back to 1930's production methods to survive while Cargill and Tyson's new expansions put them at even a greater advantage on an efficiency level. All geared toward more concentration (80% for two companies - tell me how that is good)and further integration of ownership and processing.

It is your choice to go along with things the way they are Mr.Wilson, and cowman, and I don't plan to threaten a beating on you like Mr. Wilson did on me a few months back for not agreeing with you. But don't try to tell me how to run my life either. If you see my attacks on Cargill as blaming and negative - so be it. I don't.

And I would sit down and have a beer and argue this out any time, as long as Whitey would be there to protect me from Mr. Wilson if he lost his cool.

Don't worry about me being mad at anyone Whitey. I appreciate your spunk, and know as well as you do that these forums are here for disagreement. And whether cowman and Mr. Wilson want to believe it or not, disagreement is the only way that a true democratic society will move ahead.

[PureCountry]

"...he may do better with that enthusiasm pointed somewhere else..."

Whiteface, please define "better". If you mean financially, yes I could do better in other fields. As a matter of fact, I have done better in other fields. I've made 500% profit on some oil and gas stocks, I've made a few thousand/month at times with reclamation work, surveying, running heavy equipment, etc.

However, my idea of "better" isn't just fiscal. I'm sure yours isn't either, I'm just stating where I stand. My priority is the health of our family, through the improved health of our soil and produce. And if it means working in town instead of Ft. McMurray or one of the other hundred wretched places I've spent months in, so be it. If it means taking - after taxes of course - half of the paycheques I used to get, to be home every night watching my boys take their first steps and speak their first words, so be it. If it means driving used vehicles and not having all the 'toys' our friends do, so we can sink more money (aka-investment)into a ranching business that provides HEALTHY food for everyday people, so be it.

Success, or doing 'better' is not measured on balance sheets, folks. It's measured every time you wake up next to your partner and don't want to get out of bed to go to work. It's measured every time you come through the door and hear those little voices squeal, "POPPA!!". It's measured every time you sit a saddle on a fine horse and watch cows calve on green grass(in 25 degree weather).

I'm proud of the life we live and this "dreamers" attitude I'm always accused of having; the one so many seem to think we could do better with. In fact, I pity any of you who have been blinded by the money you've made in thinking you're successful, while forgetting the priorities that people like myself are happy to remind you of every now and then.

Whatever you do, don't forget them too often. Better has nothing to do with money - it's just a state of mind.

[whiteface]

That totally works for me, Pure Country, that you are one of the clear thinking people that have your goals clearly and specifically defined and do whatever it takes to achieve them. Those are the people I personally admire the heck out of. You're right, it doesn't always have to be about money, but I'll contend if you look deep enough into anything, it usually is. I also do appreciate, Randy that I may to some extent be appearing hypocritical which I know full well you won't take from anyone, however, I do hope that instead of comeing across like I have abandoned the cattle industry, rather you will all realize that I have taken on a route which helps me realize the financial means that will be needed if and when I choose to take down some arrogant "multinationals." I do enjoy large amounts of cash and the freedom in which it buys, I don't however, EVER, use it against people unless and then for sure, when their arrogance simply needs to be straightend out for the good of some simpler, harder working, good hearted people that simply need a rottweiler in their corner...that would be me and I would fight to the death for those kinds of people that I do truely like...and you know you're one of them, Randy.
I agree wholeheartedly that CS is an extremely and I mean extremely "hot" person with sensitive buttons that go off all by themselves most of the time. Not really the kind of person I prefer to play with but definatly not afraid to compliment when I see opportunity or take on a scrap if necessary, even if for a friend that willingly went and pushed the ESD button (that's emergency shut down which will cost a gas plant millions for all of you not in the oil biz).
Just in case all of you don't know yet, and even though I was not outright accused of it, I will just say sheer acceptance is not what I'm made of either. What has happened with the cattle business is not simply something to accept and I do appreciate all of you fighting to not simply "accept it." I don't expect that any of you feel that I simply did, but I do feel there is a better way to deal with it than screaming amongst yourselves or even to yourselves behind closed doors. And while I know that this forum should be a place to band together, the very nature of farmers and the independent drive that they have that has been their existance forever, will not work now and is exactly why the "better men" ( the packers ) are and likely will win. They work together, farmers whine and fight and accept. Just my observation. Some of you might form coalitions which will help you do better than most. Some will redifine their goals that it's not about money or power but health or lifestyle, totally fair also. What upsets me is to see the scrappers come on here that want what they want and stupidly or stubbornly can't get or won't take the necessary steps to achieve their goals. Pains me but then again, I accepted a long time ago that I cannot change people, only live well and lead by example and if any choose to follow, I try my damdest to be a good teacher.
Probably more information than a lot of you wanted but fortunatly, the way this forum is set up, no one is holding a gun to your head to read my dribble if you choose not to and I respect everyones choices to do what works for them. If it didn't work, I would certainly expect you to analyze your methods and make necessary changes. Thanks for reading and have a good day all!
P.S. Randy, I think you and I might be due for a coffee...

[cowman]

Randy:Well I wasn't saying you were totally wrong or anything. A lot of what you say I do agree with...and with grassfarmer too!
And I also think you guys are "true believers" in how you see things?
I don't have all the answers, never did, probably never will!
While I did my little bit to try to get rid of the ABP, I was also a supporter of a fledgling movement for cow/calf producers...which never really got off the ground! This was all back in the early nineties.
I had hoped BIG C might have grown into that type of movement? And yep, I'll say it again...if I lived in the US I would be a member of R-CALF! I don't agree with some of their dumber tactics, but at least they are standing up for the cow/calf producer! No one stands up for us here in Canada?
And finally: I have no lofty motives of helping my fellow man or living a pristine life! I admit it...I am a money grubbing greedy sucker!...hmmm...I wonder why I don't have any?