packer structure...

[grassfarmer]

So when you talk about selecting for "non saturated fatty acid deposition" Sean is that high Omega 3 levels? If that's the case isn't the only really successful way to do that by feeding grazed plant material versus grain?
To me there seems two directions to go - high quality beef that is also a health food product(grassfed)or high quality generic grain fed beef from a feedlot. I suspect that most customers will still be happy with the latter but how much we can grow the other sector is what interests me.

[cswilson]

What is the sin in producing cookie cutter calves that all eat well-branded beef and retained ownership to the owner's plate is a noble idea-the realities are we still need some larger packer entities. Our good friends Dylan and Colleen Biggs have been at it for years but it is a long slow arduos process-as they will both attest. We've direct marketed grass fed beef for years but I'm not naieve or idealistic enough to believe that it would work on an industry wide basis.

[rkaiser]

Well Mr.wilson - I am not naieve enough to think that the goal of the multinational packer is to save the family farm in this country either.

Glad it's working for you cswilson. With your low costs and correct type of cattle, you may just last a little longer than most.

[cswilson]

Have i ever said their goal is to save the family farm-I'm sure some packer haters have bought cattle cheap from their neighbors,negotiated on a land rental-tried to buy feed as cheap as they can. For those of you that are trying to launch your branded beef deals you'll get alot more support and investment by accentuating your positives than by whining about the packers,the government and the ABP-we all know their in it for the money-admit that you are too and you'll lend yourselves some more credibility-anybody who shows up to buy my cattle and promises to help me out usually helps themselves first. I've been in the semen sales business for years-you don't sell much product if all you can do is run your competitors wares. Never expexted Cargill, Tyson, Randy Kaiser or Joe Blow to 'save' my ranch for me.

[coppertop]

good comments cwilson. Anyone who has sold bulls knows that the potential buyer is going to try and get the best bull for the least money they can, they aren't worried about how the seller keeps his operation going !!!

[smcgrath76]

The exact definition of a commodity market. The lowest cost producer wins, as that is the only way to ensure margin in a perfectly competitive industry. I personally believe that a business owner has a responsibility to themselves and to society to try to be profitable (there are a lot of different ways to measure profit!!!). To my way of thinking that basically means contributing something positive to society, not neccesarily making a fortune. A good example are some of the very wealthy people who are not concerned with $ but rather preserving large tracts of rangelands. It may not make them money but it does make a positive contribution to society (Currently I am definitely not in that position. LOL) I agree with GF that in order for most of us to survive, we have to get out of the commodity business.

As for the previous question from GF.
Yes, feeding high forage diets will tend to increase unsaturated CLAs and omega 3's, however new research is showing that there are in fact cattle that will produce more of these compounds than others regardless of diet. In other words, in your herd there may be 100 calves on the same forage diet, but a percentage of them will produce higher levels of these desireable CLA than the rest of the calves. This appears to be heritable (about the same as milk), and thus could be selected for. Also they are finding disease resistance to things such as pneumonia has a heritable component, also in this same range.

[kpb]

In a normal commodity market it is true that the lowest cost producers are the ones that survive and prosper. However in cattle production, there are many producers who do not produce calves as their main venture or for purposes of producing a profit or to support themselves or their families.

Because of this, the lowest-cost full-time producer may find himself undercut in the marketplace by part-timers or ranchers with either tax issues or other sources of employment. This takes place because of the low barriers to entry in our business--it's easy to buy a cow. In other commodity businesses this does not take place--it's not easy to buy a small coal mine on the side and operate it part-time.

I agree that lowering costs will help us all survive. But we should note that as long as the average cow herd is about 30 head, full-time ranching will go up against part-timers who do not care if they make a profit. Having said that, I agree that generally producing for a specialized market--rkaiser and grassfarmer--is the better way to go largely because it is a more specialized field and harder for the part-timers to gain entry to.

kpb

[whiteface]

Awesome post cs! Have a good day all.... Oilers game tonight!!!!!!!

[rkaiser]

Ya Cory Wilson you go. Compare Randy Kaiser to Cargill and Tyson LOL. It's the usual cut down I receive when someone doesn't like what I have to say. You have it all figured out Cory Wilson.

Randy Kaiser is trying to help some fellow producers sir. Our program is working and putting profit in the pockets of producers that have a bit of patience to wait for their money.

My bull sales are public auction sales with no games, and no manipulation. We don't force people to buy our bulls to take part in our program like you have eluded to at times. I take as much chance as anyone else. I back up my bulls and replace them if there is a problem.

Go ahead and compare me to your buddies Mr. Wilson (LOL) and continue to post your views of how everything should be. Congratulations that integration with Cargill works for you. You must be the best rancher in all of Saskatchewan, cause it ain't working for very many more than you.

Good to jump on the phony capitalist bandwagon now that you have given up on the industry hey Whiteface. Guess old Scott Huber on ranchers got the better of you. Trapping any gophers these days?

[rkaiser]

You know Mr. Wilson, I am usually a very positive person, and I promote the hell out of my cattle and the positive, forward initiative adopted by BIG C in a hopeful positive way.

It's hard to read words like yours calling me naive, and after you didn't like mine back - the packer blamer. BIG C did have a positive plan that was shot down in a very negative way by the ABPCCA that the editor of Alberta Beef Magazine called "the ones with wisdom." Even though he had his story all screwed up.

I guess I should just quit reading crap like Mr. Wilsons or others who say negative things about me. Might keep me on my personally positive road. I actually see most of what I say and do as positive and hopeful for those unfortunate enough to be loosing ground in the industry.

It always grabs peoples attention when people like you use the words whiner or blamer. I use them at times as well, however, some people would see my same opposition as supportive and helpful to those who are not as fortunate or business savy as the likes of Mr. Wilson.

Big Oiler fans in this household as well, but I guess we'll have to wait for one more game to celebrate.

[coppertop]

One positive note Randy is that many people across the country are cheering for the Oilers regardless of which Canadian team they usually cheer for !

I do think you have done and continue to do a lot for the beef industry, not just for your own breed of cattle but the entire industry. Don't let negative comments get to you, just keep on with the postive things you are doing.

[cowman]

Randy: I think cswilson was just trying to point out that Cargill/Tyson are a fact of life, doing business as they see fit and it is very unlikely they are going away? Get used to it.
That doesn't detract in any way from what you are trying to do? Just keep on doing what you do and learn that you are very unlikely to change the world!
I would suggest you are overly "passionate" on this packer thing. If Cargill/Tyson disappeared off the face of the earth tommorrow...some new corporation would step right in! It is the system our federal government likes?

[whiteface]

Randy, I've always been a VERY strong capitalist as you know quite well. Choosing to not go down with a loosing industry when I have no say in what happens with my product makes me "diversified" as some like to call it. You have to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. My head hurts too much from banging it against the wall, and there are days when I sincerely hurt for some of you.
Scott Huber has some some points that I definatly agree with although not nearly enough that I think we could ever be really good friends, which is one of the reasons I don't frequent ranchers anymore, there's no point in argueing with a fool, some might not be able to tell the difference. I still think most people sure don't see me as fool but rather a rational, logical thinker that knows enough to see what is working and what ain't and simply care for my family using commodities that are in demand. Beit ranchgate meat(Been there, done well, just not nearly enough demand for it), National Champions (I've served up many of those as well, but there ain't all that much demand for them, either) or as is the case right now, houses are hot as hell and that's currently what I provide. You can't be angry at me for that. Maybe I shouldn't have made the left-leaning comment, but you all have always liked me for seeing it like it is and not the way I want to. Apparently, I still need to work on my tact though it would seem.
I have respect for many of Scott's ideas even now and same with cs even though, there too, may not be enough common ground for a lifelong friendship, but also as you know, I am open minded enough and do forgive enough that I can always comment favorably and am certainly not too proud to do so, if and when, something catches my eye and prompts me to do it.
I think I did encourage Pure Country to continue to give it his all even though I think he may do alot better with that same enthusiasm pointed somewhere else and incidentally, why are you all bent out of shape over my thoughts anyway? What the hell do you care what I think is my question right back at ya? Still, have a good day, sincerely. Thanks for reading.

[rkaiser]

Just amazes me how folks can come out in defence of a system that has seen the rise, expansion and and obvious profits to do this, in the multinational packing industry while the primary producer has seen the opposite.

The whole thing about being positive and ignoring the situation is even worse. Is Cargill positive at every government and industry meeting that they attend? I guess the are, as long as they keep getting their way. If they are these true capitalist that some tend to believe, why do they not fire the multitude of staff that makes up their lobby at the federal, provincial, and so called "integrated industry" level within the ABPCCA. Give me a break.

When some folks believe that things like BSE testing, or lesser concentration, or less packer ownership MAY HELP THE RANCHERS OF THIS COUNTY - does the lobby group from Cargill and Tyson remain positive. Hell no. They use every negative fear tactic that they can to stop these things that some see as positive.

The route of acceptance that cowman and Mr. Wilson has suggested has sure gotten us far now has it not? There has been no opposition to the needs and wants of the multinational packers in this country for years. Where has this led us. To a farm that has to go back to 1930's production methods to survive while Cargill and Tyson's new expansions put them at even a greater advantage on an efficiency level. All geared toward more concentration (80% for two companies - tell me how that is good)and further integration of ownership and processing.

It is your choice to go along with things the way they are Mr.Wilson, and cowman, and I don't plan to threaten a beating on you like Mr. Wilson did on me a few months back for not agreeing with you. But don't try to tell me how to run my life either. If you see my attacks on Cargill as blaming and negative - so be it. I don't.

And I would sit down and have a beer and argue this out any time, as long as Whitey would be there to protect me from Mr. Wilson if he lost his cool.

Don't worry about me being mad at anyone Whitey. I appreciate your spunk, and know as well as you do that these forums are here for disagreement. And whether cowman and Mr. Wilson want to believe it or not, disagreement is the only way that a true democratic society will move ahead.

[PureCountry]

"...he may do better with that enthusiasm pointed somewhere else..."

Whiteface, please define "better". If you mean financially, yes I could do better in other fields. As a matter of fact, I have done better in other fields. I've made 500% profit on some oil and gas stocks, I've made a few thousand/month at times with reclamation work, surveying, running heavy equipment, etc.

However, my idea of "better" isn't just fiscal. I'm sure yours isn't either, I'm just stating where I stand. My priority is the health of our family, through the improved health of our soil and produce. And if it means working in town instead of Ft. McMurray or one of the other hundred wretched places I've spent months in, so be it. If it means taking - after taxes of course - half of the paycheques I used to get, to be home every night watching my boys take their first steps and speak their first words, so be it. If it means driving used vehicles and not having all the 'toys' our friends do, so we can sink more money (aka-investment)into a ranching business that provides HEALTHY food for everyday people, so be it.

Success, or doing 'better' is not measured on balance sheets, folks. It's measured every time you wake up next to your partner and don't want to get out of bed to go to work. It's measured every time you come through the door and hear those little voices squeal, "POPPA!!". It's measured every time you sit a saddle on a fine horse and watch cows calve on green grass(in 25 degree weather).

I'm proud of the life we live and this "dreamers" attitude I'm always accused of having; the one so many seem to think we could do better with. In fact, I pity any of you who have been blinded by the money you've made in thinking you're successful, while forgetting the priorities that people like myself are happy to remind you of every now and then.

Whatever you do, don't forget them too often. Better has nothing to do with money - it's just a state of mind.