packer structure...

[PureCountry]

Thanks Whiteface. Rkaiser and I have talked this one over many times over many...coffees.lol I do get pretty passionate about these things. We're not just talking about our own health here, but our children's and grandkid's as well. What more motivation does a body need to start doing something about the way you produce your food?

Making a profit in some program with some corporation may be agriculture, but it's not my kind. J.M.Unhumble.O.

[smcgrath76]

While I certainly agree with PC on a lot of this, I am moreso in the CS camp on this topic. I do think that as producers move into the food chain, rather than the cattle chain that they will be forced by consumers to produce a consistent product. That may mean a tasteless chicken like product, or an especially nutritious on a local on individual farm basis.
There is a lot of neat work going on in the heritability of fatty acid deposition and so far it looks like the ability to select for non saturated fatty acid deposition could be as strong as the ability to select for milk. There are some other neat components that also show the same potential. In other words, breeding beef cattle that make you healthier for having eaten them. I suspect the big players will be on this like flint within a few years.
I think that no matter what scale, an individual operation is either going to have to produce a consistent product, or else be extremely aware of their diversity and search out a lot of different markets in the future.
Again, to back what CS is saying, most research I have seen by people I respect shows that roughly 8 out of 10 years the returns are better by owning your cattle longer. If you want to be rewarded for breeding and managing better beef cattle, it is best to own them until they are beef.
One good example that is getting up and running is natural valley in SK. I am sure they will have struggles, but they are working to price beef back from retail, moving their farmer shareholders into the food business and out of the cattle industry.
Will it work? Who knows.

[rkaiser]

Thank goodness that one good thing has come out of this BSE thing so far Sean. Just wish it was something BIG enough to help out more than a few producers. Every one of these initiatives helps, and the ranchers beef thing at Balzac is one more even larger step. Just wish that more of them would have kept things going.

You can all think I'm just a sour packer hater if you like - but my contention is that producers must not only become packers, but retailers as well if they are to survive.

[grassfarmer]

So when you talk about selecting for "non saturated fatty acid deposition" Sean is that high Omega 3 levels? If that's the case isn't the only really successful way to do that by feeding grazed plant material versus grain?
To me there seems two directions to go - high quality beef that is also a health food product(grassfed)or high quality generic grain fed beef from a feedlot. I suspect that most customers will still be happy with the latter but how much we can grow the other sector is what interests me.

[cswilson]

What is the sin in producing cookie cutter calves that all eat well-branded beef and retained ownership to the owner's plate is a noble idea-the realities are we still need some larger packer entities. Our good friends Dylan and Colleen Biggs have been at it for years but it is a long slow arduos process-as they will both attest. We've direct marketed grass fed beef for years but I'm not naieve or idealistic enough to believe that it would work on an industry wide basis.

[rkaiser]

Well Mr.wilson - I am not naieve enough to think that the goal of the multinational packer is to save the family farm in this country either.

Glad it's working for you cswilson. With your low costs and correct type of cattle, you may just last a little longer than most.

[cswilson]

Have i ever said their goal is to save the family farm-I'm sure some packer haters have bought cattle cheap from their neighbors,negotiated on a land rental-tried to buy feed as cheap as they can. For those of you that are trying to launch your branded beef deals you'll get alot more support and investment by accentuating your positives than by whining about the packers,the government and the ABP-we all know their in it for the money-admit that you are too and you'll lend yourselves some more credibility-anybody who shows up to buy my cattle and promises to help me out usually helps themselves first. I've been in the semen sales business for years-you don't sell much product if all you can do is run your competitors wares. Never expexted Cargill, Tyson, Randy Kaiser or Joe Blow to 'save' my ranch for me.

[coppertop]

good comments cwilson. Anyone who has sold bulls knows that the potential buyer is going to try and get the best bull for the least money they can, they aren't worried about how the seller keeps his operation going !!!

[smcgrath76]

The exact definition of a commodity market. The lowest cost producer wins, as that is the only way to ensure margin in a perfectly competitive industry. I personally believe that a business owner has a responsibility to themselves and to society to try to be profitable (there are a lot of different ways to measure profit!!!). To my way of thinking that basically means contributing something positive to society, not neccesarily making a fortune. A good example are some of the very wealthy people who are not concerned with $ but rather preserving large tracts of rangelands. It may not make them money but it does make a positive contribution to society (Currently I am definitely not in that position. LOL) I agree with GF that in order for most of us to survive, we have to get out of the commodity business.

As for the previous question from GF.
Yes, feeding high forage diets will tend to increase unsaturated CLAs and omega 3's, however new research is showing that there are in fact cattle that will produce more of these compounds than others regardless of diet. In other words, in your herd there may be 100 calves on the same forage diet, but a percentage of them will produce higher levels of these desireable CLA than the rest of the calves. This appears to be heritable (about the same as milk), and thus could be selected for. Also they are finding disease resistance to things such as pneumonia has a heritable component, also in this same range.

[kpb]

In a normal commodity market it is true that the lowest cost producers are the ones that survive and prosper. However in cattle production, there are many producers who do not produce calves as their main venture or for purposes of producing a profit or to support themselves or their families.

Because of this, the lowest-cost full-time producer may find himself undercut in the marketplace by part-timers or ranchers with either tax issues or other sources of employment. This takes place because of the low barriers to entry in our business--it's easy to buy a cow. In other commodity businesses this does not take place--it's not easy to buy a small coal mine on the side and operate it part-time.

I agree that lowering costs will help us all survive. But we should note that as long as the average cow herd is about 30 head, full-time ranching will go up against part-timers who do not care if they make a profit. Having said that, I agree that generally producing for a specialized market--rkaiser and grassfarmer--is the better way to go largely because it is a more specialized field and harder for the part-timers to gain entry to.

kpb

[whiteface]

Awesome post cs! Have a good day all.... Oilers game tonight!!!!!!!

[rkaiser]

Ya Cory Wilson you go. Compare Randy Kaiser to Cargill and Tyson LOL. It's the usual cut down I receive when someone doesn't like what I have to say. You have it all figured out Cory Wilson.

Randy Kaiser is trying to help some fellow producers sir. Our program is working and putting profit in the pockets of producers that have a bit of patience to wait for their money.

My bull sales are public auction sales with no games, and no manipulation. We don't force people to buy our bulls to take part in our program like you have eluded to at times. I take as much chance as anyone else. I back up my bulls and replace them if there is a problem.

Go ahead and compare me to your buddies Mr. Wilson (LOL) and continue to post your views of how everything should be. Congratulations that integration with Cargill works for you. You must be the best rancher in all of Saskatchewan, cause it ain't working for very many more than you.

Good to jump on the phony capitalist bandwagon now that you have given up on the industry hey Whiteface. Guess old Scott Huber on ranchers got the better of you. Trapping any gophers these days?