Easy calving Breeds

[ALLFARMER]

Who was the most cows and pulls the least calves? Dad loved pulling calves, I do not. Thinking hard on Angus but have been told by some to have some british influence = Black baldie?? Also I need to consider the wife's 10% say in how things are run around here. She like red cows. Anyway what breed can you calve out from the cab of a Kenworth 600 miles away?

[grassfarmer]

Red cows - easy calving? you won't beat a Luing bull if you are looking among British breeds! They are "my" breed but this is no hollow boast - it's was proven by research in Britain many times over the years that they had some of the lowest birthweight, most viable calves on average of any British breed but usually finished in the top two or three for weaning weight.

During the first 10 years after this breed was officially recognised careful record keeping showed the foundation herd of 500 cows saw zero c-sections, 1% annual calving assistance and 96% calves weaned per 100 cows exposed. Birth weights were 78lbs on bulls and 71lbs on heifers.

That said I believe it would be possible to have calving difficulties in any breed due to management - eg feeding regime, lack of exercise, size or type of cows if used on crossbreds.

[coppertop]

Limousin are noted for calving ease, but as grassfarmer says, choosing the bull within the breed is very important.

In 32 years involved with limousin cattle there have been less than 1% assists and one c section on an old cow that should have been gone down the road.

I select my herdsires not only on birth weight but gestation length, conformation etc.

I would suggest a heart to heart talk with your vet, they can give you a good idea which breeds make them the most money in calving time with pulls and c sections etc.

[grassfarmer]

Actually I didn't say that choosing the bull within a breed is very important, and with good reason. We hear this "more difference within a breed than between breeds" argument often on Agriville by those wishing to shut down discussion on breed comparison. I think this is a sorry excuse to curtail valuable discussion although it certainly is true of most, but not all, breeds. The majority of breeds and herds within those breeds have very little consistency or uniformity due to their genetic and management practices. Winter calving purebred herds that live in a pampered environment, get watched over like pets and get human assistance to overcome their udder, mothering and calving problems allow for nearly everything to survive and prosper. Tolerating 2000lb cows, cows that won't breed regularily,need extra feed and have bad feet certainly will lead you to having a herd/breed with wide genetic variability. Breeding cows by AI to a wide selection of that years "industry leading EPD bulls" further dilutes any breed type as does breeding hybrids.

On the other hand running purebred cows tougher than commercial guys run cows will produce cattle of more predictable genetics in the areas that matter. This natural selection for fertility, longevity and easy fleshing cattle will automatically give you easy calving cattle that have the correct carcase type.
Unfortunately many of the beef bulls sold in Canada are more like feedlot steers with nuts. Not surprising maybe when they were born to pampered mothers, reared in a pampered environment, force fed a feedlot ration until they are yearlings and then picked for the highest gainers on test or most beef on them using ultrasound etc. What a surprise when you put them out with cows and they can't breed, have bad feet, are infertile etc etc - did the breeder ever consider the traits in his bulls that are needed to be fertile herd bull? The usual advice to disappointed bull buyers is "increase your bull numbers - go down to 20 cows per bull, you can't afford to have open cows" Buying more crap because the crap you already bought doesn't work doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

With the creation of the Luing breed we are lucky to have benefitted from master breeders who selected only for true functional efficiency, with no props, in a tough environment. Luckily again the Luings that came to Canada have been in the hands of like minded breeders so I can say with confidence to Allfarmer that if he buys a Luing bull in Canada today he will not have to carefully select a strain that is easy calving - they are all easy calving.**(see bottom)

Not many breeds can say that because some of their members are chasing high gaining cattle, others easy calving, others cutability, others size.
I do not apologize for claiming our breed has traits that others don't - other breeds probably have traits that ours don't and that is as it should be, genetic variation should exist and be maintained in cattle - but in seperate breeds with different characteristics. This current craze for a mono-culture of cattle is a dangerous road to go down genetically and it also plays into the hands of the meat corporations and any plans they may have to further "factoryize" the beef sector the way the hog industry has gone.

** As far as bulls can be easy calving - if you over feed 1800lb cows and give them no excercise you could probably get 160lb c-section calves off a Luing too)

[coppertop]

ALLFARMER, you will get lots of advice on calving ease, type of cattle that are best etc., and I will maintain that there are bulls within each breed that are easier calving than others.
To support that claim I know of one operator that used Longhorn bulls on his heifers all the time, one year he decided to buy from a different breeder and had 6 c-sections, these were from daughters of cows that had calved to Longhorn as heifers with no problems.

Feeding and management is very important, over fed heifers can certainly have calving problems as can cows that aren't required to have some excercise such as walking to water etc.

I have noticed that there are less over fitted bulls showing up at bull sales, and certainly have noticed they are in their 'working clothes' when I have looked at pens of yearlings on farms.

Obviously a person selecting a bull needs to know about how it was fed, if at all possible see both the dam and sire it was from, and if you go to a reputable breeder they can certainly assist you in selecting a bull that should be an easy calver.
I am not 'barn blind' when it comes to cattle breeds, there are good and bad in every breed,don't over look Galloway or Welsh Black as easy calving bulls, I am sure that Randy can help you find a bull with easy calving genetics.

[PureCountry]

Or me? I've got some good Galloway bulls right now that were easy-calvers. They just happened to be looking for a home too.

pcstockfarm@yahoo.ca - if you're interested.

[coppertop]

sorry PureCountry, of course you are a Galloway breeder as well. I just wanted to make sure that ALLFARMER had some choices of breeds that can provide easy calving genetics.

I don't have any bulls for sale, but have certainly produced some very easy calving, easy fleshing limo bulls here over the years.


The bull is only half the team so if its possible its important to select heifers that come from dams with no history of calving problems, and also select heifers with a fairly average to lower end birth weight.

When I use EPD's to assist in bull selection, I look for a minus for gestation before I worry about birth weight.

[kato]

Luings may be consistently easy calving, but that would make them the only breed that I know of that can make the claim.

We've done c-sections at work on more cows bred to easy calving red and black angus than you would ever expect. We've also seen Simmental calves that you could pick up and carry off. There are definitely lines in different breeds that will calve easier than others.

We have a Gelbvieh bull right now who is a super calving bull. We also have Limo bulls that are just as good, but have found that not all of them are. One of our old Limo bulls used to give us calves that averaged over 90 pounds. He was not a heifer bull, but on cows he was fine. Polled every calf too, as a bonus.

[coppertop]

Since I have been using polled limo bulls I have not had to dehorn one calf, even off the fullblood horned cows.

One of the first limo bulls imported was the worst advertisement possible for the breed,calving ease was not a trait so it took a few other imports to get that right. I know that there are bulls within each breed that are easy calving and ones that aren't and it is a going a bit far to suggest that there are any breeds that are 100% predictable. As much as I like the limo breed I will never claim they are foolproof in any trait. Carcass is one trait where they have been a leader for years, winning one carcass competition after the other, but that does not mean there aren't other breeds that have the same trait.

We only fool ourselves when we claim that our cattle, our way of farming etc. are the best....most folks weren't born yesterday.

[grassfarmer]

Yeah, and some folks reckon if their breed hasn't got it no one else's can have it either. Who is fooling who?

[cswilson]

Every calf has a mother as far as I know-I've A'I'ed literally 1,000's of heifers and there isn't a bull alive of any breed any where that will calve unassisted to every heifer every time. Some herds have got so much birthweight bred into them that their heifers would have trouble calving to a narrow goat. In the last ten years we've calved probably 600 heifers on our own place we help less than one percent of them. Alot of people say birthweight isn't very indicative of calving ease all I know I've seen alot more big dead calves laying by peoples barn doors than smaller ones. Were using our new Horned Hereford bull on heifers again this year-he calved great last year on my weedy little females and left some pretty sweet baldie calves.

[cowman]

Allfarmer: Go with a Red Angus. Pick for a low birthweight and proper conformation.
If you just want easy calving and never care about what kind of calf you get go with a Longhorn...of course the calf will be basically worthless! Obviously you aren't interested in getting into niche marketing or anything like that...which is probably a neccessity if you go with some of these "easy calving types"? The cattle buyers want "Angus" genetics...pure and simple? Don't ever think an old order buyer is fooled by this black Limo or black Simmental stuff!
I would think you want to sell your calves into the "commodity market"...the local auction mart or to the local feedlot? Go with a proven winner for this market...Angus! Either Red or Black!

[coppertop]

All angus aren't easy calving either cowman. As I said before, there are easy calving genetics in each breed, and as cswilson says the female has a lot to do with it.

Pretty tough to blame a bull for being a hard calver if you breed him to heifers that had a 125 pound birth weight.

Over the years here my average birthweights have been :

Heifer calves: 78 pounds

Bull Calves: 85 pounds.

That is from both red fullblood and black purebred limo bulls, off predominately purebred and fullblood limo cows but a smattering of commercial cows as well.


Selecting a bull for calving ease should not be a crap shoot, there are reputable breeders that can be very helpful in choosing the proper bull, and also AI folks such as cswilson have valuable information on various genetics.

Each cattle breed association also has a herd sire reference book that provides information on EPD's etc., or at least the breeds I am familiar with do.

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, I really like the red Angus breed, there are some great cattle in it but it's a shame in my opinion that so many of them are getting away from their original purpose. Getting too big, losing their fertility, ease of calving and AAA marbling reputation in the pursuit of extra size and growth.

I don't know about order buyers not being fooled by black mongrels - it seems the red angus is the poor relative of the black one when it comes to Angus marketing schemes which are largely based on hide colour. Hence the interest in black crossbreeds.
Tony Saretsky was judging our local 4H show last year and was giving great praise to the "red angus" steer leading the class - well he was 25% red angus but the other 75% was Luing so they don't always know what they are looking at!

Picking for low birthweight isn't always a guarantee of easy calving in a breed with great variability. It's possible that the yearling bull sold as being a "heifer" bull due to his 60lb birthweight was just a small calf by chance - his mother may be solidly 120lb birthweights in her makeup yet throw a small calf occasionally.
A friend of mine with purebred red angus is now using a Luing bull instead. His last two red angus bulls both resulted in 40% assisted calvings and birthweights ranging from under 60lbs to over 140lbs. He has had two years of Luing calves now with no assists and calf birth weights are now consistently within the 70lb to 95lb range. They also calve in the first cycle now with the exception of one or two whereas they used to be spread over three cycles. He hasn't changed his management - only his bull.

I also wonder what you call "proper conformation" in relation to easy calving? I was flabbergasted to read the advice in the Alberta Beef magazine by a prominent SK auctioneer that to achieve easy calving you needed a bull with a long narrow neck and narrow shoulders. These "she bulls" have no place in my breeding plans as they will be low fertility, plain cattle that breed high maintanence females. I have always selected thick, short bulls with plenty of power and weight on the neck and shoulder and I don't have calving problems. Anyone that says these type of bulls won't be easy calving should look to the bison - natural selection has given them big front ends and I don't think anybody is assisting them to calve.

[coppertop]

I don't keep females with wide heads and thick necks because I have found over time that they tend not to be as fertile as I like.

I look for a bull with a fairly long narrow head and smooth shoulders, regardless of whether I intend to use hin on cows or heifers.

Show judges are hard pressed to know what breed of calves kids are showing in 4-H these days. Many of the kids register their calf as representative of the breed that offers the best 'gifts' for showing that particular breed..

I would hesitate to label cross breds as mongrels, by doing so one is likely taking aim at a lot of good commercial herds that use black genetics both on the bull and cow side. I have never been a fan of Red Angus, but have seen some great RA cross steers at shows over the years. Red AngusxSimi cross heifers were the buzz word for years. In fact I sold quite a few red limo bulls to be used on that cross and the result was some pretty fancy calves that topped sales around here quite often.