Alfalfa and roundup

[cowman]

I don't know about what google might say about june grass? June Grass is what this grass was always referred to around here? It is some sort of native fescue, or so I believe? It is tough as nails and pushes out all other grasses in a lawn?
You can really tell where it is when cutting it, with lawn mower, or a haybine. It is very tough to cut.
It was part of the original prairie grass referred to as buffalo grass or prairie wool? It can pretty well take over a lawn...and usually does around here...it is definitely not Kentucky Blue or Creeping Red.

[smcgrath76]

June Grass is a mid height grass. It looks kind of like a very thin version of Brome, with most of the leaves being close to the ground. It is definitely not a climax species in wet areas. Fescue (there are a couple of types in AB) is a bunchgrass that produces like gangbusters and makes a great stockpiled forage if you let it get started in the spring. It is typically a climax species in parkland and foothill regions (higher moisture areas). It is also a decreaser in most environments (cows really like it). Further south, spear grasses and wheatgrasses are the climax species. Most native range is probably dominated by blue grama (eyebrow grass) and Junegrass due to overgazing. This is a particularly sensitive area with me as I see a lot of good, potentially highly productive rangeland being damaged in my travels. My personal pet peeve is people who talk about short grass prairie when in Canada we do not have such a thing. The shortest we go is Northern mixed grass. Shortgrass prairie in Canada is a result of management.
Not sure what your impending grass is cowman, but I would guess it could be fescue or some local terminology that applies to another competitive species. What does the grass look like?

[InAHurry]

Informative page, with pictures!

http://www.agr.gov.sk.ca/DOCS/crops/forage_pasture/forage_management_production/msr6.asp?firstPick=Crops&secondPick=Forage/Pasture&pick=&child=1

Species listed: anybody want to add their common (nickname) for them? Just copy and paste the list and add them?

1. Northern Wheatgrass
Agropyron dasystachyum

2.Western Wheatgrass
Agropyron smithii

3. Slough Grass
Beckmannia syzigachne

4.Blue Grama
Bouteloua gracillis

5.March Reed Grass
Calamagrostis canadensis

6. Sand Grass or Prairie Sandreed
Calamovilfa longifolia

7. Timber Oatgrass
Danthonia intermedia

8. Tufted Hair Grass
Deschampsia caespitosa

9. Desert (Inland) Saltgrass
Distichlis stricta

10. Canada Wildrye
Elymus canadensis

11. Plains Rough Fescue
Festuca scabrella

12. Hooker's Oatgrass
Helictotrichon hookeri

13. June Grass
Koeleria cristata

14. Indian Rice Grass
Oryzopsis hymenoides

15. Kentucky Bluegrass
Poa pratensis

16. Sandberg Bluegrass
Poa sandbergii

17. Little Bluestem
Schizachyrium scoparium

18. Sand Dropseed
Sporobolus cryptandrus

19. Needle-And-Thread
Stipa comata

20. Western Porcupine Grass
Stipa spartea

21. Green Needlegrass
Stipa viridula


The "Western Porcupine Grass" we call spear grass .... a bugger to pick out of the hem of long bridemaid's dresses!!

[coppertop]

oh. TOO MUCH Information. ( not the info on grasses, that was great, just the bridesmaid dress info !!).

Thanks for the website

[InAHurry]

coppertop, LOL, notice I said hem of dress!

There's some links across the top of that page which are worth checking out also.

smcgrath76, where we live the grass just doesn't grow any taller than "short". I'm not saying your right or wrong but it's the best description we have ... LOL

[coppertop]

this is one topic I am no expert on but over the years hasn't the east central part of Alberta been called 'short grass country' ?

In this area we have native pastures and tame pastures, fescue seems to be predominant in most of them. I have experimented with some grass mixtures, mainly with the assistance of the local seed dealer.

We got another 6/10 rain this afternoon, so the pastures are still looking fairly good. I wish the fellow across the road would move his cows because they bawl all night long, between that and foxes barking around the property its a fairly noisy night, of course throw in the odd coyote howling as well !!

[smcgrath76]

coppertop, it sure has. a misnomer for northern mixed grass prairie.

[sagewood]

Well that was all very interesting reading and I will check out the infor. on the 'grass' web link.

I personally was forced to break up an old hay field b/c of gophers, badgers, and lack of production. The alfalfa was just dying out, so the first year, I had the neighbor till in more alfalfa...no early rain, but in the fall there were a bazillion little plants emerging. Kept the cows off to give it a chance, but the next year..no production. So I sprayed it with Roundup and zero tilled in oats and barley to give it a rest. Now I had been told this would work wonderfully if we got good rain. Let me tell you that was the year of the 'good rain'...lots and lots of it at the right time in June...the crop that resulted was not worth the time to cut. I baled 40 large bales from it (this is a 174 acre piece) and turned the cows in. This year, I concluded that I had to break it up and seed it to barley. The crop is beautiful and thus, I will probably crop it one more year before putting it back into hay. As Sean said, alfalfa likes to protect its territory and even after spraying it out with Roundup and having the field brown as a bear, last year, by fall there was a lot of new growth alfalfa on the quarter. The roots that remained last year would not allow the water to penetrate and if it did, then the regrowth of the alfalfa attacked the new seeds trying to grow...if my alfalfa had not died out in that field, I probably would have put up with the holes, but the production was so poor that it was not worth moving cutters across it..and further the cost to maintain the cutter after hitting all those dirt mounds and rocks was enormous. So Bruce, if you want to get rid of those holes, etc., go the Roundup route, but then go conventional breaking and reseeding...at least that is my recommendation. Otherwise I expect you will loose a year of production, and add expense with no good result...

[cowman]

sagewood: I have to agree with you. Round it up,work it up and plant barley! Next year plant barley or if you enjoy the adventure canola. One more year of barley with grass/alphalfa underseeded..if that is your desire!
Now I'm no expert on these things but it seems to me that darned alphalfa plant can be a survivor, if it chooses to be!
I believe about a three year rotation lets the root die back and rot properly?
I do note that in the first year, wherever the alphalfa plant was you get an extra shot of N?
I understand your concern with moles, gophers and the end result of BADGERS! Nothing like dropping the haybine wheel into a badger hole!
Still I like badgers...they are tough little buggers...doing their job. I would certainly never shoot one.

[GreenValley]

to use roundup on alfalfa, believe me has to buy fertiziler to add cost bills. And breaking disc doesnt do work well when breaking alfalfa. Last year, after finish baling the last hay production best timing is cut that field first the purpose to plow up, let them grow to about 1 foot tall, and hook up tractor with plowing to plow whole field. In fall, see alfalfa shoot up from ground and worry as wheather should spray with round up. But in spring this year, almost all alfalfa died not much shoot up as root food storage has dried out. Plow turn green manure over, it has advantage over round up, get more bacteria and more orgainic matters, more fertizlier as compare to roundup field. Just my option.