hello whiteface

[Ron]

Hi whiteface, you got me wondering in your response below. Is there enough money for the rotational benefit to custom swath graze or pasture a quarter? central ab we have pretty high yeild potential for annual crops but what would it be worth $/ac for a quarter fenced, seeded and swathed in late fall (oats, trit or barley?) Or is spring/summer the time frame in demand?
I have a couple small fields with wellheads in the center just making them awkward to work around, maybe seeding them down would be easiest?
thanks

[whiteface]

I'm flattered that you would ask my opinion on whether the economics are there for rotational grazing however, I think cowman and kpb have the agriculutural numbers down waaaaaay better than I do! After all, I was one of the ones that has been labelled a traitor or an idiot for abandoning most of my farming operation because I couldn't make it work. The cash flow just wasn't there and being the business lunatic that I am, I needed much more cash comeing in to justify what in my opinion was needed to pay the entirety of the operation (taxes, land purchases, operating costs, labor, etc.) I just wasn't able to accept what I see most farm operations recognizing as costs (just feed, drugs a couple of others), missing the big picture and slowly, painfully going down the drain. I just had to do something before there was absolutly nothing left. I chose to rent. Let my own place be rented and now here I look for one for myself.
If you're wondering about my comment of offering my neighbor the hundred bucks an acre thing well, that is a true story and my offer was a product of supply and demand. I have the cash (certainly not from cows but I have my cows nonetheless) and really enjoy haveing them. I have rented out just about virtually every square inch of dirt I own including my sweet little farm that I never thought in a million years I would let go...
But the price was right and again, supply and demand. A young couple with tons of cash and not much down payment or credit rateing (can't buy their own place) just yet needed the facilities for their horses, young family and close proximity to the source of the cash flow (the job is in Red Deer). So, now they have my farm and that's how I now get paid for "farming." Or "haveing a farm" if you like that better.
Most of my cows went because I couldn't find anyone who wanted to house them (even if I offered to PAY them!) and I didn't care to buy more land to let them stand on and evaporate more cash (even with land appreciation, more money comes in letting PEOPLE stand on your land).
So here I am. On an absolutly sweetheart of a tiny little farm that we purchased after the papers were signed on my place. Have everything I could ever want except not quite enough grass to keep the pets I chose to keep. Two choices. Let em go altogether, not my first choice. Or, that I am acutely aware that there are people out there that for whatever reason have large parcels of land that they don't know what to do with, I just may be able to find a little patch of grass before it gets a Wal-mart put on it and enjoy my little herd a little longer.
I am only too aware of just how much land costs around here and how quickly there is a changeover in the kind of people living in this area. More and more of them are hobbyists who will need a substantial offer to give up their place (as I did!) to a bunch of shitty cows that bawl, break fences, stink, wreak their trees, require supervision so they don't get out into the flower or vegetable gardens and the list goes on and on. The only place a non-farmer wants a cow is in his freezer. Period. And certainly not on their expensive land that they are paying through the nose for. They would rather see real wildlife or their dogs and kids and quads or pretty horses dotting the landscape. They pay a fortune, they get what they want. That's why they work so darn hard in the first place. So I feel a need to approach them the same way. How much do you need to give up your dirt?
My neighbors place is perfect. Perfect grass, perfect fences, right there where I can keep an eye on them and enjoy them rather than drive halfway across the country. There would be little or no point in haveing them then.
A Hundred buck wasn't enough. She doesn't need the money. And she doesn't need the headache. And I get that. I also get that there are more and more of those crawling into this area.
I really am in hope mode that I'll find a place to put these cows. But I tried to beat hell last year and failed. Most of them had to go. Not economical to keep them and I cried and cried. Oh well. On we go.
I don't know if the economics are there at a hundred bucks. Cowman and kpb know. I just know that was my offer and hoped she would take it. She didn't and I'm still looking and running out of time with my little herd around here.
I can tell you almost to the cent if a building is a good buy or not and what you will need to charge per square foot to be in the black after heat, taxes, repairs maintenace, property management, etc, but doing so with my farm operation there was so little, if anything, left after ALL the bills were factored in so many years in a row, I lost interest and switched that interest into something I thought could leave a little profit at the end of the month.
I don't know for sure if I answered any of the questions on your mind but I hope with my long winded explantion of where I am these days you can somehow apply that to your own operation and make it work to the best of the information available to you.
Let me know if you might be interested in takeing my pets for the summer next year. I am seriously looking and am very interested especially if you have any dirt in the Innisfail area. Thanks all and have a great day!

[rkaiser]

Don't know how you feel you have been labeled a traitor or and idiot Whitey. I personally took exception to the statements you made about some folks being jealous of the success of a company like Cargill, and your defence of their business model. If you have decided to bail on the industry - good on you. We both know that you have a lot more potential to make the dough in almost any other industry. Most of the financial progression that I have made has been through real estate, while my progress in my industry has mostly been of the pride variety. Someday --- however, I still hope to make a buck at this cow thing and in the mean time --- I don't want any other life.

Bottom line is Whitey - if you want to throw out the Cargill/Tyson bait in this pond - be prepared for the odd old Parana to try for your finger. Have a good day and keep stirring if you like - That's what agriville is for.

[whiteface]

Thanks Randy! Good to hear from you!
Have a great day all!

[whiteface]

Thanks, Randy! Good to hear from you! Have a great day all!