Willowcreek?

[Willowcreek]

Cowman-- I don't think your belief that all of Canada's is going into the restaurant trade is correct...I know that after the BSE and only boxed beef was coming in, we found a great deal going into the local grocery store shelves- where its falsely sold to the US consumers as US beef-- and when questioned about why they don't mark it correctly, the retailer will tell you they would like to, but can't compete until it is all marked- because the Canadian won't/don't have as high of demand...That is one of the things that drove the big push by Montanans as a whole to enact a State M-COOL law.....

And you forget there is a whole lot of beef coming into the US from countries other than Canada- some of which is going straight onto the Walmart counters and being sold as US product...

The consumer is being DEFRAUDED....

And cowman-- I'm not like you- I won't roll over and just kiss the Packers Arse like so many Canucks seem to do-- I'll fight them as long as I have a breath left...Too bad there aren't a few more independent Canucks like Cam and ol rkaiser--then you guys might not have to worry so much about the US cutting you off the gravy train....

[grassfarmer]

Willowcreek this land in Saskatchewan you wish you could own - some of it was growing forage that was trucked south of the border to feed you boys drought stricken cows. Are you in favour or against this trade?
Do you rcalfers fight the noble cause and urge members not to buy Cdn. hay thereby maintaining a high price for your local American hay producers? After all the Canadian product has got to be poorer quality, subsidised stuff eh? Or are you just happy to use some cheap Cdn. imports when they suit you?

[jensend]

w.k.: That article is nearly 5 years old and was written by a fellow who hated farmers in general.He was pulling numbers out of thin air.

well if you've got the correct numbers handy maybe you could share them. my guess would be that in the intervening years federal payments haven't gone down. i wonder if it included the benefit of hay or grazing of crp lands in drought years..but then that's assistance not a subsidy.

[WilIow-Kreek]

sorry jensend...I don't have the current numbers for you.I am just pointing out that you are using old numbers and an article written by Mr Gilles who has shown distain for all things rural his whole career.Your the one using the numbers to make your case so I suggest you find the most up to date figures.Relax,kick back and smoke a joint while you are doing the research.Its the Canadian way eh.

[Willowcreek]

Grassfarmer- I have never bought a bale of Canadian hay-- in fact I'm one of the ones that used to sell hay before the border was opened to the hay produced on thousands of acres of that Prairie Province Program subsidized ground-- that they sold as low as $20 ton in the late 90's-- $25 Ton delivered... Put a lot of good local people that had invested a lot of money in irrigated land out of business or in a bind for a few years...

And don't tell me they didn't get subsidized- because the Canadian hay producers have sat right there and told me how they got paid up to $85 an acre to reseed to pasture and hay....Paid to go from wheat farming to hay and cattle- helping to expand the glut of Canadian cattle coming south...

But when we wanted to expand the place on the border-- and buy the connecting place north of the border-- the Canuck government told us we couldn't buy it, because they had to keep it to more subsidize the poor Canuck farmer/rancher....

I don't consider that FAIR trade....
Just a continuation of the fallacy's involved with this rag they call NAFTA...

[cowman]

I must be missing out on all these wonderful subsidies because I just underseeded 80 acres this spring and never got a dime! In fact I've never got a dime for seeding grass!
Don't know about the price of hay in Saskatchewan? Seems to me it is always dirt cheap there? I do know in the last big drought in Montana the hay buyers were up here buying up everything they could find? In fact they were even buying silage and trucking it south...they didn't care because the US government was paying the freight! How goofy is that?
I think the most shocking thing I heard was 1000 tons of silage trucked to Billings from Ponoka, Alberta!
One thing you R-CALF boys should realize: In Canada we would not have this glut of cattle and hogs if your government hadn't ruined our grain industry! Your export subsidies stold our traditional export grain markets. Your insistance that we end any thing that looked like a subsidy, while you continued to pour them on...spelled the end for the western Canadian grain farmer if he didn't diversify into livestock.
So you screwed our grain farmers and now your trying to screw our livestock farmers!
Well you said "produce something that we need"? We thought you needed our beef and pork...and I think your packers still believe that? But whatever...maybe we need to get back to exporting something you do need...like fuel? Its coming friend! we'll produce as much ethanol and bio diesel as you want! Of course then the crying will start again about evil Canadian grain farmers taking advantage of you poor downtrodden welfare farmers! Maybe you could start R-CORN or something? Or maybe learn to compete?

[wmoebis]

Couple of things I don't understand about this subject.

Why does a cow stepping across the 49th or 200 miles north, become inferior? Why would the US farmers want to buy land up here if he will grow inferior cattle that the buyers will pay less for only to let packers take south and make huge profits?

I have ate corn fed, silage fed, barley fed and grass fed beef I think they are all a matter of personal preforance. I know which I like best but others like different and I have had poor quality in what I like, on both sides of the boarder.

Is the problem not with the buyer/packer not with the producer? If the producer on both sides of the boarder demanded more you would both be happy.

A upper level manager of Cargil once told me that what "they" wanted was the USA to grow the grain and wanted Canada raising those stinken pigs and cattle "BUT, THEY WANTED TO OWN THEM"

Looks to me that they are going to get their way unless producers of both cattle and grain, on both sides of the boarder don't band together.

Divide and Conquer.

[Willowcreek]

wmoebis ["Divide and Conquer"]

They have already conquered NCBA,CCA, ABP, USDA, and CFIA...Thats why we need other organizations/groups that will still truly fight for the cattleman and the family farmer...Its late in the game- but we have been winning some down here-- and will put a huge hole into the Cargil/Tyson/Swift/etals globalization/integration game plan with the passage of M-COOL- and maybe even get the PSA laws enforced again- along with a good chance at passing a Packer ownership law.....

But from what I see coming out of most Canadians is that they are happy with the status quo-- Just get the border opened so we can ride on the shirttails of the US producer again-- without any thoughts of what more could happen in the future... Truly SAD...

[cswilson]

Three simple letters WillowCreek CRP-my buddy baled several hundred acres down there during the drought-got paid to keep out of production but still got to bale it-if you want to talk subsidies look out your front door at your neighbors. What a hypocrit and you haven't conquered anything but your fear of lying.

[Willowcreek]

CRP was only opened to some haying in drought areas, after the Canadian subsidized hay had put so many local hay producers out of business or to raising something else......And even then they got a reduced payment to hay only 1/2 at the most.....Something like the Canuck BSE disaster payments you could get for not selling your calves--or for the loss you suffered on your fats (that the Packers took most of...LOL)
Another cause and effect of NAFTA-- just like the subsidized prairie program helped to cause the Canadian herd to grow by 2 or 3 times- putting more pressure on the US cattlemen, since Canadian beef has no identity and has to sold into the US to be passed off as US, in order for it to sell...

Nope, NAFTA has been a lose/lose situation for American farmer/ranchers while Canada expanded their herds with subsidized grazing/hay--and never would/did open their border freely for US cattle....

[cowman]

Willowcreek: Well thank heavens you aren't setting US policy! If you think NAFTA was bad for America you really need to do some research?
Don't even go there with the subsidy thing because you are totally wrong! The subsidies to the US farmer are well documented and can never compare with the pittance we might get up here. The fact is you are one of the most heavily subsidized agriculture countries in the world!
You seem to set great store in the fact the Democrats won big time in the recent elections? It has always been my observation that trade issues become a lot easier when the democrats are in? They talk a good game but don't ever deliver? Sort of like our Liberals up here!

[Willowcreek]

cowman-- The good news for US, but bad news for Canada is that of the almost 40 new individuals coming in-- the majority are old "Bluedog conservative" America first Democrats that replace neo-conservative Globalist corporate backing Republicans...

That tells me that the backlash against selling out our country and our countries small business's by these neo-con New World Order politicians, isn't just something thats happening in my area or something just I'm seeing-- its happening across the nation, and is just the beginning of a rising tide...

Thats why I keep saying that Canuck producers better get off their arses and start trying to get some identity to their product and some markets beside the US...The gravy train days of riding on the shirttails of the US cattleman might be short lived....