Stelmac and Thruber

[Horse]

I hear the new Premier is going to set up a traveling road show on oil royalties like the Thurber road show of yesteryear to study crown lands . Do you supose there is any chance he may also want to look at crownlands again or mabey look at bill #31 that he voted in favor of then. Ralph got cold feet and forgot about.
Coppertop you seem to have an in with the new premier how about a prediction as to what would happen.

[coppertop]

horse, there are two separate issues in my opinion. One, will be the review of royalties which, I understand will be the responsibility of one of the ministries to have an independent from government review team see whether or not Albertans are getting the biggest bang for our buck royalty wise. The Premier had stated numerous times during the leadership campaign that he wanted to have a review of the royalities, this in tandem with his desire to see less raw products shipped to be refined elsewhere.

The second issue will be the Provncial Land Use Policy Framework which is a very ambitious project and will in all probability involve discussions on public lands.

The wheels are in motion on this issue, the Premier has indicated that it is one of his priorities, and it is my understanding that the plan is to have some sort of draft document ready by spring that will address land issues across the province.Whether or not this draft document will meet with public approval is another issue. I was involved in the discussions last week on this new direction for land use, there were numerous issues on the table, and many of them would require some major changes to the way business is carried out on public and in some cases private land. How much of what was discussed will ever end up in the final documents is anybody's guess. First Nations were represented in the discussions and they feel that they have a vested interest in public lands, and in any resource revenue that is created in areas that are traditionally used as hunting, trapping etc. areas. The entire land use issue is a major undertaking, and I am pleased to see the government taking initial steps to make changes.

[Horse]

I sure hope you are right that this is a priority as I have been bringing this to this govmt since lougheeds time and it all gets lip service and then oblivian.
Does Mr Stelmac have the use of any crown land?
The provincial grazing reserves at least here charge $25/AUM and no resource revenue on the reserve I just cant see how the gov has set this thing up other than to donate 100mill or more to 4000 producers and leave the other 25000 to fend for themselves.
Sure am hoping for change.

[coppertop]

I have no idea whether the Premier has use of crown land or not. I do know that he has a grain farm and a small herd of cattle.

I think he is adamant that there is a complete arms length from government review of royalties, and this will mean public consultation horse, so if there is a hearing near you, make sure you attend and get your opinions on the table.

[cowman]

I doubt anyone is going to tackle the public grazing land issue? They do so at their own peril! Remember how Klein got beat up on that one?
The grazing lease owners are not going to give up the gravy train without one hell of a fight...and who can blame them! Don't forget, there are a lot of "heavy weights" in this bunch and they have a lot of financial and political clout!
I do hope the PCs get this land use thing right but suspect no matter what they do, there will be a lot of friction? Maybe better not to rock the boat too much? Maybe the same thing on the royalty question?
The provincial Liberals actually think they can make some serious inroads next time in the big cities? The Klein government was starting to look pretty much out of ideas and basically Stelmach isn't looking like he'll change very much? Don't forget Ralph got a lot of votes just because he was Ralph! He was flamboyant and he connected with the little guy? Now Ed is in the honeymoon stage right now, but he probably has a couple of years to show why he should be premier?...and a lot can happen in two years!
If Bracconier decides to enter provincial politics...the PCs should be very afraid!

[coppertop]

cowman, the only place the BRONC would get support is in Calgary, and he can only run in one constituency, so I wouldn't worry about his entering politics. He might get one Liberal seat but I am fairly sure that the Liberals will lose one in Edmonton if Mark Norris decides to run again.

IF the Land Use Policy Framework continues on the route it is taking now, what happens on public lands may very well be a lot different than what happens there currently. At the session I attended last week, the representative from CAPP voiced the opinion that we do NOT need to continue to preserve agriculture lands for food production because there is too much food produced in the world already. Now, if that analagy was thought to be key, then why would there need to be grazing of cattle on public lands ?

I hope they do revamp the grazing lease issue, if, as Ed has indicated he wants to hear from Albertans on various issues, then I am willing to bet that the vast majority of Albertans will want to see this issue dealt with in a fair way, so that Albertans get the best return on their lands, whether it is from an oil company of someone grazing cows.

[blackjack]

...again their is a big difference whether the lease is in the west part of the province or to the east...as farmer-son said in another thread there has always been certain parts of the industry that has been subsidized...as for certain business of commerce would love to change the rules...those cows are grazing on valuable land...in these days of age we can't have that happening can we...

[coppertop]

I am not sure of how the Land Use Policy Framework will unfold, but I imagine that there will be further consultation in addition once any proposed draft legislation is in place, if it ever gets to that point.

I know that there is a huge push from numerous users of the land base to have some consistency in policies.

[cowman]

I suspect the public owned grazing leases won't be a big deal in a new land use policy? It really is a loser for all concerned...well other than the Alberta taxpayer...and who cares about him or her??
Now Horse likes to quote $100 million...and I don't know if that is right or not....but in 1990 the fact was this: The province got approximately $3 million in grazing fees while the oil/gas industry paid leaseholders $40 million!
Make no mistake who pushed the buttons to get the grazers out of the old surface lease business...it was the oil companies...and it backfired on them in a big way! Personally I'd just as soon have seen the farmer get the money...?
However....as SMcGrath stated somewhere...The lowest cost producer will be the one who survives in a commodity market? Now how are my old cows going to compete against a cow who gets a government bonus of over $1000? If I can feed them for free...I still can't compete?
Some of these "little gifts from heaven" never see the owners hand, because the money is not in the cows but in the surface lease money! They are custom fed, custom calved, custom everything!
There are no easy answers to this problem. It is an enigma that really probably doesn't have a solution?

[Horse]

Cowman you have stated many times that ralph got beatup but you are short on substance about HOW he got beatup,
as for the 100mil look at the figures 1.39/AUM =3.5mil times20 whitch would be average for private treaty = 70mill plus the 40 mill for oil plus the increase over the past 10 yr and 100mill is very conservative.
Talked to a couple of cowmen today at Triple J today and there are still a lot of people out there that dont believe the rate is 1.39?AUM if the public was educated to just what a sweetheart deal some in this province gets I do believe there would be some opisition.
Much like the CEO of Precision Drilling getting 74mill in bonuses and the finiancial advisers getting 25mill in bonuses. Not hard to figure who bends over for who.