marketing cattle

[Willowcreek]

ddniak-- I think most Historians now agree that it was neither Britains or Russia's or the US armies that won WWII--that it was actually the US great industrial and agricultural might that armed and supplied all the Allies that eventually won the war...

And this is the industrial and agricultural might that we are now selling out to whichever country is the lowest bidder...

[cowman]

Willowcreek: Not sure if it is helpful to get into a big discussion of who did the most or that sort of thing? The fact was in both America and Canada there was a total war effort in WWII? I suspect on a per capita basis we were pretty close to equal in fighting men and the war effort at home. Of course you are ten times bigger than us, so you would do more? But the fact was both countries lost men, both suffered at home from shortages to supply the war effort?
I will readily agree that Canada has not done its share for the last several decades! We've had these Liberal governments, you see? However the present government is trying to turn that around...although who knows how long they will last! Our boys are doing a lot of the heavey slogging in Afghanistan right now...freeing up US troops for Iraq.
I would also point out to you that Alberta has never supported the Liberal governments, but always has sent MPs from the Conservative camp?
It just might surprize you how the average Albertan views the USA? The people who come on here are not very representative of the average Albertan! Most of us have no fear of "big bad corporate America"? Because quite frankly "Big US oil" has made this province one of the richest places on earth!
Now because this is the "beef forum" of course there will be some resentment? America has really treated us quite shabbily in this regard. I understand your point of view...and if I was an American would probably be right there with you! And I hope the day comes when Canada gets its cattle numbers to a point where the supply is more in line with the domestic demand!
But you can't blame farmers up here for being resentful when they are losing their farms, due to US trade games.

[nicolaas]

wrgs to getting canadas cow numbers more in line with domestic demand cowman,this is going to begin in earnest this year coming up. I believe the pendlum has swung in the favor of the grain farmer. I do not see much upside in the cattle business, with our finishing system so dependent on grain. You will see hayland ripped up to grow more expensive grain, therefore potentially less hay for the cattlemen to buy - and more expensive. Our family is dropping our herd down to about 200 head this year, and plan to cut back resources going into our cattle. We made very little money on our calves this year (on paper as we have not sold them yet) and are not sure if we should feed them or dump them. I feel sorry for the pure ranchers, who cannot take advantage of the rising grain market and who will feel the brunt of escalating costs and low prices. I feel there are dark days ahead for the cattle industry, and there is not much that can be done.

Merry Christmas and god bless you all on this day!

[Willowcreek]

cowman-And thats about the same way many down here saw the Canadians when they jumped on board the US market with an ever increasing herd...

A lot of resent was built up when you watched truckload after truckload of Trans-X trucks heading south carrying swinging beef- and everytime the price of fats or culls started rising, you'd see pots of cows or fats coming south- all this while US producers were being foreclosed on and moving off the ranch because prices were in the dumps...

Then when the border closed because of BSE and the US producers saw record prices and even the Secretary of Agriculture and the AMI admitted these record prices were from not being able to access the Canadian beef, the US producer really reallized the true negative effect the Canadian imports shirttailed on our market have...

I guess its all in the perspective of where you are looking at it from...

Any way cowman-- Merry Christmas to you all the Canucks-- don't drink all that good Canadian Rye, as that is one good product Canada has!!! At least its labeled to the country of origin!!!

[coppertop]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the NEW YEAR could commence with Peace, Love and Harmony between US and Canadian beef producers, and folks on this site ?
I could add a lot more but there is no need, much of it has already been said by cowman, grassfarmer and others. Willowcreek I hope you and your family enjoy all the Blessings of the Season, and when you look north you see farm families like yours, trying to make a living, educate their kids and put a few bucks away for their retirement. We are proud of our heritage, our beef industry, and yes, of our military that are even on this day, off in a foreign land fighting so opressed people can be free.

[cowman]

Willowcreek: I think you are probably a bit mistaken about the impact Canadian imports had on your prices, but that is okay. Like Nicollas says I suspect we are seeing a shift in our Canadian cattle herd to a more balanced approach.
When the CROW rate was killed the western Canadian grainfarmer had few options other than to go into livestock production? I don't think you entirely understand the system we work under up here? For decades the Canadian Wheat Board had stifled most options for value adding to our cereals. You should remember that before European and American export subsidies destroyed Canadas export grain markets, we were a net importer of BEEF!
Now it seems there is a real market for grain, not as food but for energy, and I think that is a good thing? Like you said...send us something we need!
It is very frustrating to see a government come in that finally starts doing somethings right....only to realize the majority of Canada want to slip back to the inept bunglers of the past! And the sad part is very few in western Canada will vote for these clowns...but we will get them anyway!
My own personal view is, and always has been, the western provinces need to seperate, but that doesn't seem to go over too well with the flag wavers!

[Willowcreek]

Oh I understand that cowman-- That is the reason I have never held it personal against Canadian farmer/ranchers...I realize this was all caused thru government policy and corporate manipulation...

I only answered to point out how the resentment from US producers comes about-- and to give everyone an idea of how the mood in the US for "free trading" and "globalization" is fastly switching... I truly believe the so-called Canadian cattlemens associations need to find some leadership that doesn't think they can continually count on the US market--because I don't think it will always be there......

[cowman]

Well I can also understand how you guys might see it? We've seen it here too, over the years. When those old cows get too high the government lets in the Aussie garbage...way above the agreed upon quota! Cheap food is more important than farm stability! Damned dumb peasants!LOL
As far as our "beef organizations"...the average cow/calf guy has long given up on even trying! About 15 years ago we tried to get a cow/calf type organization up and running but were completely ignored by the government...sort of the same thing as the recent organization, BIG C!
I think generally there is a move out of cow/calf and cattle by a lot of farmers in Canada? If this grain market is real(and not just a result of shortages worldwide) I think we will see a major shift in the next year or two from cattle/hogs and into cereals and oil seeds?
You should also understand that in Canada...things go slow! In America some entrepreneur sees an opportunity...he goes for it...and his government supports him! Here we "study it, we consult, we drivel around"! In many ways we are indocrinated into this frame of mind! Just like in the former Soviet Union, you don't overcome the "Socialist Utopia" over night!

[coppertop]

cowman, bear in mind, that Aussie beef is far inferior to our own beef, that is not the case with our beef vs US beef. If that were the case, many of posh restaurants would not, for years, have been advertising prime Alberta beef on their menu !! I doubt if you would ever see anyone advertising Aussie beef !! In fact, a local group ordered Aussie steaks a couple of years ago for a BBQ that was being funded in part by the Ag Society. When the little secretary of the Ag Society got wind of it, there was hell to pay, so the beef order was changed to Alberta Beef !!!

[coppertop]

sorry, I meant to say many posh US restaurants advertised Alberta Beef on their menus

[Willowcreek]

coppertop posted Dec 27, 2006 11:15
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sorry, I meant to say many posh US restaurants advertised Alberta Beef on their menus

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coppertop-- It must have been in a very few restaurants and in times past-- because I have searched high and low on the internet and in print media, and can find nowhere that a Canadian beef product is being sold as such in the US or advertised at a US restaurant/retail store...Lot more US origin, and US ranch sourced, or US grassfed and organic showing up- but no Canuck branded...

Most Canuck beef has no identity anymore- unless its in the rural areas or with the organic and consumer safety folks and then its identified with "BSE"...

Even the local butcher has told me the reason he "voluntarily" won't mark Canadian beef as such is because then he won't be able to compete with the other stores that still pass it off with the USDA stamp as US Beef...Which means in this area its identified as an "inferior" product...

Thats the reason we need the M-COOL law- so that ALL Packers/Retailers must truthfully tell the consumer where the product is coming from...

[grassfarmer]

"that Aussie beef is far inferior to our own beef" - Is it now? I realise everyone wants to support their own countries product but I think if you look at the facts you would see that Australia's beef industry is becoming a world leader. Their work on genetics, tenderness and eating quality are racing ahead of those in North America.

[coppertop]

All I know grassfarmer is by the taste test. I don't know how familiar you have been with some of the low priced chain restaurants of the past decade or more, but many of them served Aussie steak, and they couldn't begin to compare with our Alberta Beef.
I would highly doubt that any restaurant would dare advertise Aussie beef anymore in Alberta !!!!!

Willowcreek, I have been in high end restaurants in Montana in the early 1990's and seen ALBERTA PRIME BEEF advertised as a menu item, and I am not the only Canadian to have seen this in the US. Perhaps now, this isn't happening any more, but the point I was making is that our Alberta beef is equal in quality to US beef.

[Willowcreek]

Coppertop- Quote "Willowcreek, I have been in high end restaurants in Montana in the early 1990's and seen ALBERTA PRIME BEEF advertised as a menu item, and I am not the only Canadian to have seen this in the US. Perhaps now, this isn't happening any more, but the point I was making is that our Alberta beef is equal in quality to US beef."

Yep I can buy that... Back in the early 90's before the Tysons/Cargils/multinationals etal made it into a generic slab of meat, Canadian beef had an identity-- but now if you asked most US consumers about it- they would have no idea and/or would say they have never ate it...Canada lost all quality identity with NAFTA and now the only identity the beef has is negative.....

[coppertop]

The mindset I have is that I will support my own beef industry, and I will not patronize any food establishment that I know serves anything but Alberta Beef.

Anytime I am involved in organizing an event, and have anything to do with hiring a caterer, they are advised that if they aren't in the habit of serving Alberta Beef at all times, they need not bother giving a quote.