So whats the deal on these old cows?

[Willowcreek]

rkaiser- My main problems with this proposal is that it comes at a time when we have not got a lot of our export markets back, especially the Asian- and the Canadian issue is one that has previously complicated that, and may stall it further...We need to get our export market up and running before we begin importing---

then their is the question of safety- which if you follow CFIA/USDA's BSE transmittal theory puts both the US cattle herd and the US consumers to a much higher risk...The 2 countries do not even have matching feedban rules and neither has what the private industry scientists recommend to protect the public and the US cattle herd...You of all people, should know all the gaps and holes in the BSE theory ---

thirdly is the fact that this beef/cattle is being passed off to consumers as a US product- which it definitely is not, which not only is unethical, and leaves the US consumer without the ability to make an informed choice, but I'm convinced the comingling without labeling will definitely affect US consumer confidence and demand....

There are several more concerns I could list but these are my primary ones....

[Willowcreek]

rkaiser-- The best way to sum it up for US cattlemen is-- is the risk worth the gain?

Answer me this--

What does the US cattleman gain from this rule or any imports of beef/cattle from Canada? - while at the same time they are greatly increasing the risk to the US cattle herd and potentially the entire longterm viability of the US cattle industry...

[rkaiser]

I've answered your question before Old guy - you just don't read those kind of things. And obviously you read very little with your continual babblegab about risk to the virgin American cow herd. You are a very lost sole Willow Creek - a very lost sole.

Debated if that should be sole or soul for only about 2 seconds.

[cowman]

The idea of basing the resumption of trade on sound science? How does this relate to the rule proposal of no animals born before March 1999?
Doesn't the "sound science" say when the SRMs are removed...the product is safe?
In fact isn't that what the USDA is actually saying and proposing? Willowcreek?
Now I do believe this whole idea of getting this thing done is important...and heres why: The US government can probably(if it chooses) keep out OTM cattle on phony health issues. I don't believe they can keep out OTM beef? I think it violates the trade rules and would set the USA up for a trade dispute...they would surely lose! Not only that, how do they argue their own beef should be open to export....while they openly violate OIE rules on trade? I think the Japanese and Koreans already see through their little games?
To even try to lump OTM beef and OTM cattle together just isn't going to wash?
Do we really care if Canadian cows can re-enter the American market, if OTM beef has access? Won't American importers be more than happy to bring the beef in, in a box? Bottom line: the protectionist gravy train is about to come to an end!
So Willowcreek don't get to excited about running out and buying a lot of $1500 heifers! Reality is coming down the road real fast...get ready for it!

[cowman]

One more thing on this subject:
Willowcreek likes to think his "new boys" in the house and senate are going to save his bacon? Will they?
If you remember back when Anne Veneman was replaced by Johanns, Willowcreek had all kinds of hope that Johanns was going to be the R-CALF champion? He gave him many compliments and told us what a fine upstanding America first kind of guy he was????
Well how is that working for you so far?...well maybe no so good.
On CNN last night they had a democratic senator laying out the things they hoped to accomplish...not one mention of over hauling the USDA! In fact the main thrust seemed to be how can we tuck our tails between our legs and get the hell out of Iraq!
I really doubt the American house or senate gives one hoot about a bunch of backwood hillbillies out in Montana? You are way down on the priority list...if you even make the list!
I suspect a few old cornpone senators will do some blustering to keep the rednecks happy, but in the end it will be business as usual and the border will be open sooner than later?

[Willowcreek]

cowman "The US government can probably(if it chooses) keep out OTM cattle on phony health issues. I don't believe they can keep out OTM beef? I think it violates the trade rules and would set the USA up for a trade dispute...they would surely lose!"

I don't know what trade rules you would be talking about-- doesn't seem like any two countries have the same rules...And any legal precedings could be appealed for 10-15 years - hopefully by then you should have your act cleaned up (altho USDA in their press conference says Canada will still be finding positives 20 years from now)..

And You forget there has already been International precedence set on allowing trade restrictions protecting cattle herds with Canada's 12 year restrictions for Anaplas and Bluetongue...These Canadian cattle/beef imports endanger our US cattle herd and long term economy of the US cattle industry way more than Anaplas or Blue tongue ever did...

See what happens when you put up artificial trade barriers to protect your little calvies prices...LOL
What goes around comes around........

[cowman]

Willowcreek: Come on get real? No way can you spin this "bluetongue thing" into what you guys did to us on BSE? No one but an idiot would even try.
Personally I don't care anymore about the silly garbage you R-CALF boys spout!
Yep, you've pretty well beat us into the ground! And yes you'll have your little hollow victory!
The world is moving on and it looks like you might have gain one inch!
Hopefully you screwed it up so much that eventually we never have to send one damned animal to you? And then you can pay us, in Spades, for every BTU we send you!
You have created more enemies up here, with your stupid protectionist policies, than Osama could have ever hoped for! I hope you are real proud of yourself?

[kato]

Has anyone asked exactly WHY the U.S. hasn't regained it's market?

Could it be that a certain cattleman's group has spent the last few years ranting and raving about how the USDA is corrupt, and incompetent????? News releases slamming the honesty of their own country's regulatory agency don't do a darn thing for advancing confidence do they?

Why do overseas customers think Canadian beef processed in Canada is safer than so-called top of the line U.S. beef processed in the States? Could it be the processing? Could it be the inspections? Could it be they have been reading R-Calf press releases?

[Willowcreek]

cowman- What do you think your good neighbors just south of you thought when after we put in a FREE trade agreement Canada shuts the door and restricts US cattle and tells everyone that "ALL US cattle are diseased"?
Cattle that ran side to side with Candadian cattle...
Just can't give you any sympathy cowman...

Kato-- quote-- {"Why do overseas customers think Canadian beef processed in Canada is safer than so-called top of the line U.S. beef processed in the States? Could it be the processing? Could it be the inspections? Could it be they have been reading R-Calf press releases?"}

So tell me the percentage of Asian market Canada has gained back ? Or why after the Canadian cow in the US closed our export markets did both Japan and Korea hold up importing US cattle until the US could prove they could segregate out Canadian beef?...

Personally I think both the US and Canada has screwed up big time by caving in to the Tyson/Cargils etal and not testing all until a true extent of the effect of the disease is known- and for not allowing private Packers to test and offer tested beef to the world..

[rkaiser]

Willow Creek says ---"Personally I think both the US and Canada has screwed up big time by caving in to the Tyson/Cargils etal and not testing all until a true extent of the effect of the disease is known- and for not allowing private Packers to test and offer tested beef to the world.."

If only you could just stop there Oldtimer.