ethanol and distillers grain?

[rkaiser]

I would like to say, as I always do, that it is the type of cattle and not the breeds that determine the end product. I will agree with you Horse, that barley fed is what sets Canadian beef apart, and I personally prefer grain finished product. However, how we get the cattle there is the key. To take a large framed beef animal and finish it at a preferred size and age; long feeding of grain was/is essential. Using lower quality forages and then putting some barley finish on an animal is and will be the most economical way to continue our barley fed advantage. This will require a "type" of cattle. Just because our cattle fit that bill right now, does not make them the "only" right choice. It did not take the Angus or Hereford breeds long to work in the system that cowman talked of.

The only problem with changing a breed to fit a system is time. Even if a new Simmi- Angus- or Simmi/Angus bull has all the right stuff for the new system, his pedigree will include generations of cattle that don't. How many generations of breeding will it truly take to make that bull work in a high roughage, short finish situation.

All of the mainstream breeds have been moving to moderation for a few years now, but it will take many more to be where breeds like Welsh Blacks, Galloways, Luings, and many more breeds have been for generations.

Boy I was out to lunch on that distillers grain thing. Is all of the by product from Ethanol and Bio diesel this high protein matter?

[grassfarmer]

Why does Canada feeding their cattle grain or barley set them apart? Beef producers in South America, Australia and Europe all feed cattle on high grain rations some based on barley.(there may be more areas these are the ones I know of) "Barley beef" (ad-lib barley plus a protein supplement plus a bit of wheat straw to keep the stomach turning) has been a production system used in the UK since the 1960s.

I have found an analysis on corn derived stillage below. I don't know how this compares to other grain crops stillage.

(100% dry matter basis)

Crude protein 28 to 30%
Oil 8 to 12%
ADF 18%
NDF 44%
Calcium 0.15%
Phosphorous 0.52 to 0.78%
TDN 88%

[Willowcreek]

grassfarmer quote: {"Why not go out and look for customers wanting top quality beef that are prepared to pay extra for it? We can't compete with South America on labour costs or land costs but we could produce to a higher, better verified standard."}

grassfarmer, You are very correct in your thinking- but in order to do so you need your product to have an identity...And as long as the Multinationals that have controled the beef industry have their way, they want it all to be generic beef so they can throw in that cheap South American, Mexican, wherever beef and keep the price down...

That is the reason cattle producers in the US want to have M-COOL...US beef has a good reputation/and is known as a quality product- but cannot compete with the low production costs of those other areas without being identified...

Canadian beef could/would do very well- but right now it has no identity--very few even know there is Canadian beef, as for the past 12 years its mostly all been passed off as US product...

[cowman]

Not quite sure how to read your numbers on corn silage grassfarmer?
In the Alberta Beef Herd management book they have corn silage listed at 10.2% protein and ADF at 31.7? Now this is at 74.7% moisture so I assume on a dry basis explains the higher protein numbers?
Incidently barley silage is listed at 12.4% protein, ADF at 30.1 at 62.7% moisture.

[grassfarmer]

My figures were not for corn silage Cowman they were for corn stillage, or distillers grains the byproduct of ethanol production.

[northfarmer]

grassfarmer, I toured Brazil and Argentina a couple of years ago....by far the majority of cattle are grass raised and grass finished(particularly in Argentina), though over time grain and silage rations are becoming more commonplace....and while our rockies make a nice backdrop, so do the plains and mountains of South America....and the beef I ate there was as tasty and tender as I have eaten anywhere....I am not disputing we do not produce quality beef here, just do not assume we have the exclusive deal on the stuff....

and as both a cow/calf and large scale grain producer I do not buy into your conspiracy theory about multinationslas squeezing the primary producer in the inputs side....we are are own worst enemies as we do not stay vigilent on the cost structure of our business in times of properous prices....just ask anyone in the crop inputs business...high grain prices means great margins....primary producers must get more directly involved in the supply chains and value added activities related to their end product...that goes for beef and grains/oilseeds...otherwise a properly functioning market will charge what the market can bear...IMHO

[cowman]

Okay, sorry grassfarmer that explains it. I was reading it wrong.

[DieselRam]

Wheat distillers from the ethanol plant out of Lloyd is about 34% CP and only 3-4% fat. It can by no means replace a grain in a backgrounder or finishing ration due to a lack of energy. It is a great protein supplement especially for Dairy rations. It is about 50% DIP and 50% UIP.