Foraging ability

[whiteface]

I'm off beef now...
Can't afford it!!! LOL!! Have no idea anymore what grade translates into the "eating experience." One of the things that definatly pissed me off on my ultimate way out of the entire industry was thinking the grading system was in an extreme sorry state of repair. Sure, grassfarmer, I know where you're comeing from, I can attest to your ideas a lot, maybe if there were more like you there would be an entirely different road map as far as this whole industry is concerned.
But there isn't. Sorry about that too.
Maybe you will educate many and still die broke since your ideas won't be implemented in your lifetime. You could hope for a statue put up in your name but I would say that more people are financially sucessful that give the customer (the majority of them) what they want (even if if it ain't GOOD for them - it's their money they're wasting) rather than trying to re-educate people into buyig whatever it is they have to sell. Been there done that many years. As a purebred breeder, I sell what they ask for, not try to convince them what I have is what they need. Howz that working for me? Well now I sell property instead of cows and eat chicken, not beef! (I'm kidding by the way)
Maybe it ain't working! You keep going grassfarmer, I still read all your posts and respect them!
Have a good day all and thanks for reading!

[cowman]

Whiteface: I actually think guys like grassfarmer and Cswilson...might be the only ones who can survive!
Obviously the system we have in place...isn't working all that well? Just not enough money in it?
When you take about a 40% hit in the price you get for a product(never mind the several years of inflation!) the fact is if you want to survive you've got to drastically reduce costs? That is true in any business...bottom line is gross product has to pay more than costs...or you won't be able to stay in business?
I really don't know how some people continue? Selling small calves in the fall off the cow...getting less and less every year...paying more and more for inputs every year? You have to be innovative and make some changes if you even hope to survive?
I guess for many people the question is...is it worth surviving? The fact is we're all getting older and on just about all farms there are no kids taking over?
Now I'll admit I like cattle! I like feeding them, I like raising them, I like calving them out. I get a real good feeling looking over a pen of good steers or replacement heifers.
I do not like how the profit has shrunk in the last several years! I may not be as radical as some of these guys on here but I do know I'm raising cattle at a fairly low cost compared to many people. The times are a changing!
I remember one time at a bull sale when I was a boy? My family had a bunch of bulls there and while I was wondering through the barns I spotted this really good Shorthorn bull? I went back and told my grandfather about this big good Shorthorn. So he went with me to see him...I'll never forget what he said "Yep, Jackie, he is sure a good bull, but he won't sell for much! He is yesterdays cattle...not todays cattle"! And he was right...he was yesterdays animal?
Now I think if we continue trying to raise "yesterdays cattle" in the market of today...we are bound to fail? It just doesn't work? And maybe in a lot of ways we are going "back to the future"? But bottom line is this:
You have to raise the type of cattle that work in the market we have today!
And I do believe that market is moving back to an animal that will work on grass and slaughter at an older age? I don't think the money is there anymore to feed a lot of expensive grain and own a lot of expensive facilities and equipment? We need to raise them cheaper. Just my opinion.

[grassfarmer]

CS, I look forward to trying that cross but I don't have the females to spare - we are selling two horned bulls to a purebred horned hereford herd who wants to try it. He wants horned "red baldies" with hair coats and foraging ability.

Whiteface,
I'm not looking for any statues but I can tell you I'm not broke now and I won't be when I die - and I won't be changing jobs in my lifetime either.
I am selling something my customers want - both in terms of grassfed beef and in live cattle and earning premiums for both. I will still always attempt to educate people throughout my life - it's what makes the world a better place. Catering only to the lowest denominator, to people with poor education or people who are heading for an early grave due to bad eating habits may have satisfied you - it obviously didn't pay you too well or you wouldn't have quit. By setting your goals at the lowest rung on the ladder - the mass, or commodity, market because it's easy and everybody wants your stuff you limit your potential.

[blackjack]

...until our supply gets in line with the demand ...you guys are spinning your wheels that continue to kid yourselves you have the most low cost efficient pattern on raising cows...it is a margin game and the ones with the larger herds have more connections than the small ones...i think whiteface has realised this... as has many others with the amount of dispersals happening now...has for forageing ability a ranch that has access to cheap straw and couple other ingredients can run a cow as cheap as anyone ...

[cswilson]

Well you can try and change to keep going to keep going or you can whine and cry about the good old days. I think GrassFarmer is a pretty canny old Scot-I hate to rain on whiteface's parade but real estate peddlers get whacked by the economy every now and then. An old rancher who moved up here in the 30's and died with a 7 figure estate told me never underestimate your cows-no matter rain or shine they're out there chewing for you. GrassFarmer you should go over to Ranchers.net and post some pics of your Luings-did I tell you my grandmother actually knew the Cadzow brothers. If I'd quit everytime someone who perceived themselves as smarter told me I was done I never would of got started.

[whiteface]

Fair and square, grassfarmer, it sure didn't pay me enough to keep doing it and rather than continue beating my head against the wall, I let evolution take over. Decided to simply go with the flow and the majority rule was "we want a place to live, and then maybe, just maybe, after we've afforded all our toys, we'll see if there's any left over for that "eating experience" you all keep talking about." I keep telling you, food is the first to go when normal consumers need to cut their own costs (like when their rent and fuel goes up!)
The real estate wave has been phenomenal to say the least and I don't doubt for one second, Wilson, that what goes up can't be shot down. Give me just a whisper more credit than that. I still remember sitting in my truck just before the twin towers went down looking at my herd and listening to a CALGARY radio station (not even some farmer station but a HIP-HOP station...now you all know what I dance to!) and the dee-jay going on and on about the windfall of cash flowing into cattle producers hands. God how that felt good!
And then...
My favorite expression...
JENGA!
The States decide to go on a man-hunt and make everybody nervous about opening their wallets and then...
BSE shows up only 8 months later and the world as all cattle producers knew it changed. Completely, totally, permanently...
And how many of you sold out when prices were phenomenal...
I didn't either, but sure as hell got smarter real fast as I watched in angst neighbor after neighbor going down. Still watching it, and like you grassfarmer, trying to save a few of my favorites from total bankruptcy, teaching them how to use their farms for anything other than farming.
I didn't go bankrupt, I continued doing what I have always done, given the consumer what they demanded...houses, no one wants live cattle and I even did and still do pretty darn well as far as individual prices of my breeding stock and embryo and semen exports go.
Just that the land, taxes and interest rates did pretty darn better and I wasn't really in the mood to move my family to the moon just to lower the biggest costs, my land and interest payments.
Anyway, all been said before. I can still assure you, Wilson that greed is not the deciding factor, the mental stability of my family is and when the gravy train of real estate is done in Alberta, it'll be time for something else. We talk quite a bit about time to cash out, just like I "should have" called the truck and sold everything that day that hip-hop station went on and on about now is the time to be a cattle farmer. Then was, now ain't.
I will keep giving the consumer what they ask for, that I believe is the mindset of an entreprenuer, not to tell consumers what they "should" want. That ain't an entreprenuer, that's a bully (or an American! LOL!)
If you guys got enough customers to bring in a buck or two and so few amenities that your costs are zilch, my hat is off to you and I mean that sincerely.
I still like beef and still need some guys to produce it.
Thank you to those who are and can afford to do so. I can't. Mine are now pets that I thoroughly enjoy, and life has since gotten a whole lot better since I was able to recognize what can and cannot be done. Thanks for reading and have a good day all!

[cswilson]

Each to our own Utopia I guess.

[cowman]

CSWilson stated it very well with his last statement!
Everyone of us has to live with the decisions we make in regard to our own personal decisions?
Bottom line is this: whatever floats your boat!
I do understand where whiteface is coming from...and believe me...several times I have thought...to hell with this!
I like to think of myself as a savy businessman...who can go with the flow! And in most cases...I do!
Maybe I am bent or something...but I have this little "Ag thing" that limits me? Probably all the BS I grew up with?
But bottom line is this: As long as I'm alive I will be raising cattle. No one will be able to out-compete me because I don't even care if I lose money!...Now obviously I would maybe like to make some money...but I won't be run out of this business, no matter what!
Now what can an idiot like me do? Well I can say to hell with it, damn the torpedos, and I'll go full steam ahead, or I can say...I'll change, try to hang in there, try to keep this thing profitable? I have pretty deep pockets...I only have to outlast so many people.
Not pretty...but the truth?

[grassfarmer]

Blackjack I didn't understand your post - are you saying that only by being margin players with ever increasing numbers can we survive? I would dispute that totally, it hasn't helped producers of any other commodity become rich. High margin, smaller turnover however may be the future especially given the constraints of rising land values. You don't think that being a low cost producer is important?

Cswilson, I've looked at Ranchers.net a few times and think it is an appalling site - compared to Agriville it is nothing but trading insults and abusing other people. The photos of the participants at their hillbilly rendezvous are rather scary, looks like they tied their mules up out back! They don't look to me like people on the cutting edge of American agriculture. If you want to look at photos of Luings go to my website luingcattle.com.

[cswilson]

There's some pretty good stock people over on ranchers.net you must of wandered in to the the politics or bull session lol. At least they are ranchers making their living off cattle and don't whine quite as much as some.