Regulated beef industry

[grassfarmer]

You did not prove to me Cowman how little money was being made by the packers. This is a very well guarded secret - remember the inquiry into packer profiteering? When the packers basically told the Government of the country that there was no way they would comply? Kind of like Willy Pickton refusing to go to the police station to be interviewed on suspicion of mass murder and the police saying "oh well, ok then we won't pursue this any further." Personally I think they should have had 60 days to comply or be told to conclude their business and leave the country. It has also been pointed out before that the companies are called Cargill Foods and Tyson Foods - they do a lot more than kill and box beef.
As to your other points:

"Marketing, processing, advertizing all have a cost?" - yes they do but producers like us pay a huge part of the marketing and generic advertising cost of beef through the beef checkoff.

"Reduce the supply and there will be more dollars chasing less product...what happens? The price goes up!" - er well no, not really. What happens in this global marketplace is they import a little more beef from offshore specifically to destabilise our price here. This is their protection against having to pay any price increase on fat cattle caused by a supply shortage.

"Cargill, Tyson, Safeway, and Sobeys never got where they were because they were stupid? They out competed all the other guys...and they did it by being efficient and squeezing every last dollar out of the marketplace." - Again I would disagree. They out competed the other guys by externalising costs - a startup producer plant can't compete with one set up with Government money and allowed a monopolistic free reign of the industry. Consolidation in the food chain sectors beyond the farm gate has allowed a few companies to dominate. Once in this position they don't have to be efficient. Primary producers on the other hand, the survivors, are many,many times more efficient - they have had to be to survive.

[rkaiser]

I might I add cowman - influencing government regulation and policy.

My thought on a regulated beef industry are simply this - regulate and that will be the end of any producer power we might have left. Cargill and Tyson would love it. Nothing would change as far as producer profits except that the highs and lows would be challenged. No big opportunity for legal theft by the packers, but no opportunity for producers to move into further packing and processing areas.

Cowman's description of how the wholesale - retail market works is a joke. Cargill and Tyson do not simply offer one price for the week for crying out loud. They negotiate with almost every customer,have contracts,and share retail profits with integrated chains. I will agree that they got where they are with cagey business maneuvers, but manipulation is Cargill's middle name.

[blackjack]

...that is the whole scary part about north american society...all they understand is that they can go safeway and get there food...makes you wonder sometimes down the road if we will be like the third world countries when other nations come to teach our society how to feed itself...with no young farmers learning the trade (other than maybe the hutterites)no one will know how to farm or manage it...

[kpb]

grassfarmer, I would agree with you that moving beef from Argentina into Canada is dumb when we have too much already.

But the plain fact is that capitalism works on economic realities not common sense. So it is actually not relevant if we have lots of beef if Argentina can produce it at a quarter of our price, landed at our ports. The economic reality is that it will not matter, in that event, how much beef is produced in Canada--only that someone else can provide it cheaper and supply it here--which is what the consumer wants.

Insofar as the city folks being our friends, I am afraid that this is also not the case. People who have no conception of what it is to farm will more and more dictate how to farm. Through their purchasing of cheap food--as cheap as they can get it--and through telling us how we can use our land and raise our animals.


kpb

[perfecho]

would have to disagree that all Canadians and homemakers are looking for the cheapest product. Starbucks and bottled water would not be making huge dividends if this were the case. I have discussed this topic with many consumers, and a good majority would gladly pay a little more for top quality product, that supports local producers. Some smaller, branded beef programs are successfully marketing such, doing well at it. I feel our major problem is education to the consumers. They, for the majority, do not know what is really happening. With beef prices going up and being blamed on the rise of grain, the assumption is that the increase is going to the producers, even though fats are at the same level as a year ago. But people are still buying, thinking exactly what processors want them to think....and no government or packer is going to change that unless they have to.

[cowman]

There are many kinds of consumers. Some want cheap, some want quality? Lets face it if you are the $500,000 a year lawyer what do you care if you pay $25 for a steak at a fancy restaurant...might be a lot different for the single Mom trying to sc**** by on a poor job!
I do think though that people want value for their buck?
Beef is losing market share to pork and poultry. Partly price, partly a perception beef is not a healthy food?
It is not helpful when groups like R-CALF get up on the podium with "beef unfriendly" groups and say the USDA and CFIA are not doing their jobs!
I don't think we need a regulated industry...and know it will never happen!
This may shock grassfarmer...but I do agree the government needs to put some tough rules in place to "regulate" the meat complex!
Corporations are not evil? They will function within the bounds of the rules? The federal government in Canada has just about let them run wild with no checks or controls? I think they need to rethink that position?

[farmers_son]

Re supply managed... Cattle production in North American is supply managed right now. Make no mistake about it, the closing of the U.S. border to Canadian beef and live cattle had more to do with managing the supply of beef in the United States than it had to do with food safety. North America presently manages the supply of beef by high tariffs on imported beef (net importer of beef), restrictions on packing plants, restrictions on testing, availability and cost of governemnt land, taxation, restrictions on interstate and international trade in beef and cattle, subsidies, grain policies, and on and on.

The difference between what we think of supply managed commodities and cattle/beef is in the supply managed commodities the producers manage the supply through quotas while in the cattle industry the government manages the supply through price. I was at those meetings in the early 1970s. The decision was put to producers on government involvement versus free enterprise while in fact there was no true free enterprise option available.

Now I am not advocating for supply management for cattle. I am suggesting however that producers realize the very significant role government is playing on a daily basis in controlling the price we receive for our live cattle. The price we receive for cull cows/bulls, the price of fat steers is a direct result of government policy.

[madcow]

we are peasants today so to speak ,but there have been peasant uprisings in the past and maybe it's time again. The farmers in this country are beginning to feel like they live in the third world, if Ottawa saw us that way they WOULD help.What kind of country are we becoming anyway when we pay 12 Million to compensate for a US blunder on a "Canadian" citizen but the Atlantic Fleet of the navy is tied up because they can't afford fuel.Our leaky subs don't have torpedoes (and no fuel)When I was a kid I was brought up in what I thought was the best country in the world, now I'm almost embarrassed. If we can't defend or feed ourselves ,what future as a nation do we have
Feeder sale here in NS ,January 20th averaged 88.11 cents for a 578 lb sale average. The top price went to a pair of steers that were charolais cross, 1015 lb, double vaccinated dewormed and age verified.The provincial govt announced help for beef farmers and then attached it to a CAIS trigger and eliminated most of the producers from help,,what a province. I don't think we will take it sitting down.

[cowman]

madcow: I can certainly understand how you feel...something is really wrong with this country? I was horrified with the article about how the navy couldn't afford the fuel to patrol our coastal waters! Totally unacceptable!
What happened to the Canada that pulled together and fought a global war that pulled us together? When everyone did their part?
Recently I was reading my grandmothers record books for the farm? She was very "innovative" with the records...and liked to make comments beside the cost/income figures? What I was struck with was the "patriotism" and pride when they bought victory bonds and recording how much produce came from the garden!
And the heart felt worrying about her sons!
Where did we go wrong in the last sixty years?

[madcow]

cowman, Alan Jackson's song about "the little man" pretty well says it all. My Grand Father had a small community service station.Sold gas oil,tires,parts and fixed anything in the village that broke.One man in the village had 4 or 5 log trucks and one was in our shop getting a motor job.The owner was a bit impatient and had been in earlier that morning and Grand Father was working away at it and told him it would be finished by supper time. The owner came back after lunch to find my Grand Father working at a kids bike,he grumbled at my Grand Father for holding up his business .Grand Father looked at him for a few seconds and then asked him how many trucks he had..The man replied "4 ". Grand Father kind of squinted his eyes a bit and said"kid's only got one bike" and went back at the bike.The truck was ready by supper time too.My father ran the garage after that and I worked there when I got out of school.But times were changing the oil company wanted to switch to tankers going to single drop deliveries, cars had long warranties that required the dealerships to do the work,muffler shops did the same. It was getting so that the people bought gas in town a few cents cheaper and came to us when they needed to 'charge it'. The profitability was becoming less and less ,I was building up a farm at the same time and when dad retired I let the shop go.At that time there was 7 guys that had a few cattle around here,15 to 20 head. Now I'm the last one left. We keep sheep as well,dropping the cattle back to about 35 cows and going up to about 150 ewes, 20 acres of blueberries and 15 acres of Christmas trees,there is a sugar woods here as well but not hooked up .Had a farm accident that cost me my right leg below the knee seven years ago and most days seem busy enough as they are. I have been wondering allot lately what to do ,Is there a life for me beyond farming. I never worked a day in my life where I wasn't my own boss ,,,don't know how I would adjust,,,don't really think I should have to . The farm always did provide for us ,it didn't get any smaller,the margin just faded away. But , the rest of the world gets increases and rewards. We just get more and more beaten up and taken advantage of by big business or government or foreign production systems. We(our local federation) met with the provincial government early this month and they said they can't afford to help agriculture. Nova Scotia is largely a rural province and we asked government if they could really afford NOT to help agriculture, no response other than they are aggressively campaigning in Alberta and the west to bring Nova Scotians home, why the he!! would anyone out there working come back here??? I have a cousin working for Syncrude in Ft McMurray made more in two weeks than I did all last year?The real question is why am I still here.