2007 U.S. Farm Bill

[farmers_son]

Cowman: I would agree with your assessment of MCOOL with one comment. I do not believe the American consumer will benefit from cheaper Canadian meat. The packers and further processors will keep all the profit for themselves and sell our meat into the U.S. market at the going market prices.

The message I would like to pass on to our American neighbours is the surest way to ensure high live cattle prices in the United States is to have high cattle prices in Canada.

If American producers would like to reduce or stop trade in live cattle and beef between Canada and the United States or see the trade take place on an even basis then prices of live cattle in Canada need to be higher. If our live cattle were the same price as U.S. live cattle then live cattle and beef would not flow from one country into the other. The pressure for trade in live cattle and beef comes from the fact that Canadian live cattle are cheaper, due to U.S. protectionist policies.

R-Calf, and the U.S. government create their own problems when they pursue policies that effectively create a pool of cheaper live cattle right next door in Canada. The same packing plants that buy U.S. live cattle buy Canadian live cattle and they will buy it from where it is cheapest.

It is in all cattle producers interests to see other producers in other countries receive fair prices for their cattle as to do otherwise only benefits the global corporations that buy our livestock.

[Willowcreek]

That is why I would love to see Canada get some export markets- ANY export markets beside the US...Canadian meat has lost all identity and will be tied to the US's shirttails forever if they don't fight to regain their identity...

But Canada will not get their exports back for some time unless they offer the Japanese and the other Asian markets what they want: TESTED BEEF...

But since they are stuck to the US Packers teat, neither your industry leaders or your politicians will push for that....

Rmemember the more overseas markets Canada gets- the better for the US...It isn't coming down and depressing our markets with oversupply...

[farmers_son]

Since the incidence of BSE is the same within the United States as it is in Canada I would suggest your remarks would apply to America was well as Canada.

The truth of the matter is the United States is not an export market for Canada. The United States, Mexico and Canada are part of one and the same market. Beef moves north into Canada from the U.S. at the same time as Canada sends beef south into the United States.

Both you and I are stuck to the U.S. packers teat and one would think it wise if that is the case that we find some way to get along. When U.S. producers lobby for policies that lower the price of live cattle in Canada they are directly hurting themselves. And since the U.S. market is about 8 times larger than ours I would think it hurts the U.S. more than it hurts us.

I understand that it may seem easier to lash out at producers in another country as a simpler solution to dealing with the common packer problem. However I put it to you that when the price of our cows rises that the price of your cows will be strengthened too.

[Willowcreek]

farmers_son posted Feb 4, 2007 10:32
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"Since the incidence of BSE is the same within the United States as it is in Canada I would suggest your remarks would apply to America was well as Canada."
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I don't know how you can compare 10 BSE cattle with connections to Canada in a herd 1/7th the size, 4 of which have been POST feedban with one as young as 4 years old-- with the 2 origin US cases and even come up with that statement....

The statisticians and experts say Canada's risk factor is several hundred times greater than the US's...

I guess we will find out more next month when OIE gives their indication if the US will receive "negligible" risk status...Because if Canada was to reapply for classification under the current new rules they would not be eligible for negligible for 5-6 years and because of the POST feedbans would not even be eligible for "controlled"...

[farmers_son]

The International Review Committee that looked into the United States first admitted case of BSE clearly pointed out that BSE was a North American problem, not a Canadian problem. Given the hundreds of thousands of live cattle that moved both North and South in the years prior to the discovery of BSE in North American it would be foolish to think that the incidence of BSE was any different in the U.S.A than Canada.

However the two countries approaches to testing for BSE have been pointedly different. Clearly the United States has attempted to hide BSE positives while Canada has implemented programs to directly target testing at the animals most likely to be affected. It remains to be seen which approach will gain the confidence of the consumers. For instance, the Japanese clearly do not trust the United States to be upfront, honest or trustworthy when it comes to BSE.

[grassfarmer]

Willowcreek, I won't bother pointing out again what farmer_son, and anyone in the world that is interested, is saying - that the US has concealed additional cases of BSE and is lying, you are fooling no-one.

Apart from the lies the figures you quote are clearly nonsense - who is the mathematician at R-CALF?

"10 BSE cattle with connections to Canada in a herd 1/7th the size... compared to the 2 origin US cases."

By my reckoning that is a simple calculation - on these figures Canada would have 35 times the risk of the US.

Yet you claim "The statisticians and experts say Canada's risk factor is several hundred times greater than the US's" .... more R-CALF lies and BS.

[cowman]

In case anyone doesn't realize it yet...Willowcreek is very good at spinning just about anything into an anti-Canada message? Even when he gets caught spreading rumors and lies(eg. the SD calves) he spins that into more protectionist rhetoric!
I guess after awhile most people realize he is not the most truthful person in the world and his slanted propaganda is nothing more than the R-CALF "truth"...which we all know is pure unadulterated BS!
The good news is R-CALF has shot itself in the foot so many times that very few people take it seriously!

[jensend]

i was at the bud williams livestock marketing course in calgary in january. it's an american production and there were a couple ranchers from montana there. r-calf was the butt of the jokes by the woman presenting the course. i think they've just about used all their ammunition and will smother in their own crap.

[farmers_son]

That could well be. However it has been my view that R-Calf will continue to have a profile as long as the Bush administration wants to delay reopening the border to normalized trade for live cattle and beef.

From a U.S. government policy standpoint R-Calf has been a godsend as R-Calf became the lightning rod for blame regarding what was really an illegal border closure. When the U.S. government wants trade to resume, then and only then will R-Calf shrink and fade from view. Ultimately the responsibility for the delays reopening the border have to lie with the U.S. government, not R-Calf.

Just watch as further restrictions on our access to the U.S. market (MCOOL) will become part of Rule 2. The U.S. government and even the Canadian government will throw up their hands and say there was nothing we could we do, R-Calf made us do it. Bull....

[jensend]

faarmers_son: From a U.S. government policy standpoint R-Calf has been a godsend as R-Calf became the lightning rod for blame regarding what was really an illegal border closure

i agree wholeheartedly and i thik that's the only reason r-calf has lasted as long as it has. it's time is soon up. a producer group could have done some good but r-calf shows that wrongheaded strategy only aids the opposition.

[Willowcreek]

How can you say in one breath that the US will get M-COOL (which they will) and then in the next say that R-CALF does nothing, is ineffectual, and has no influence...One of the main reasons R-CALF was formed was because of the M-COOL rule after NCBA flipflopped on their backing of it...

And I think its funny-- that when USDA is forced by the court to do a nationwide survey of all cattle owners -- hires the esteemed Gallup Services to conduct an unbiased poll-- and the results show that the high majority of US cattlemen support the same policies as promoted by R-CALF...Including 92% that want their US BEEF identified, labeled, and promoted as born, raised, and slaughtered in the USA...

I'll bet that's about the highest percentage of cattlemen/ranchers anywhere in the world that has ever agreed on anything.....LOL

[InAHurry]

Willowcreek writes:
...One of the main reasons R-CALF was formed was because of the M-COOL rule after NCBA flipflopped on their backing of it...

QUOTE from the R-calf website:
In 1998 the R-CALF USA was founded as a foundation to represent and file three trade cases on behalf of the U.S. cattle industry.
„« note all three cases were either dismissed or ruled against.

R-CALF web site also lists the first official comment concerning COOL on September 26, 2001. Please provide the reference that r-calf was lobbying for COOL because NCBA ¡§flip-flopped¡¨ in 1998.


Willowcreek writes:
and the results show that the high majority of US cattlemen support the same policies as promoted by R-CALF...Including 92% that want their US BEEF identified, labeled, and promoted as born, raised, and slaughtered in the USA...


„« Only 8002 US cattleman were included in the survey. There are approx 1,000,000 cattle producers in the US.
„« According to you 7,362 (92% of 8,002) of those polled, speak for and are considered ¡§the majority of US cattlemen¡¨ .
„« Those not polled equal 99.2% (992,638) of US cattle producers - and they are considered a minority ????

Willowcreek writes:
I'll bet that's about the highest percentage of cattlemen/ranchers anywhere in the world that has ever agreed on anything.....LOL
„« Only if we use your twisted math and definitions!