Bulls!

[perfecho]

Honestly if you took the solid reds and solid blacks out of a bull congress or show and put them in a pen, it would be difficult to pick which is which. The angus have raised their performance, (and birth weights), the exotics have lowered their birth weights, (and performance). With all the hybred bull selling, it has almost gotten to a "Black" breed and a "Red" breed.
At our 4-H metting last night, a feed lot operator filled us in that anything finishing over 1500 is a big no no.
What I do find interesting in selling seedstock, is that customers are selling their product off grass, usually, and yet the best performers on grain are usually the ones chosen....just an oddity I find interesting.

[perfecho]

Had written my post before grassfarmer posted his...so further thoughts....If grain prices continue to hold, we may be looking for animals to carry and "harden" on grass, then finish quickly. Discussions last night brought up how one operator seems to be doing well with this method, but most of us seem to think get them in and out is cheapest...considering labor and yardage in today's market. The pencils were not out, but I am sure they will be soon try to establish which is cheaper.

[rkaiser]

You are right on with the color thing farmer_son, and I don't think that many cattle folks at the producer end are fooled by it either. Buyers - on the other hand. Went by the Western feedlot at Strathmore the other day and was amazed at the sight. You can see a lot of the pens from the highway and most of them were filled with black cattle. How many were actually Angus? The type of Angus bulls is so varied these days that I do believe these buyers are being fooled. Camrose Bull Congress is a good example perfco. Amazing difference among breeds and amazing similarities between.

When these black cattle that are in the feedlot reach or come close to finish is when the differences will show up.

In defense of cowman's attempt to go with the auction market flow - that is his business and his system. I will bet that he will choose Angus bulls with similar characteristics to the exotic bulls he has been buying, and will fit those buyers eyes because his cattle are now black. And also in defense of cowman's choice - this wise old bear will add hybrid vigor by choosing a breed that is different than his current.

Not many of my bulls will fit that mold cowman, but if you are looking at retained ownership like farmer_son suggests as the future - maybe you should take a look at perfco's bulls or yours truly.

[rkaiser]

canada did find one more bse case
it was a 7 year old so not to make any more headlines
willowcreek you did not have the whole story.
remember canada did test over 150.000
animals mutch higher than u-s-a and canada reports allcomprehensives measures !
we have the best up to date CFIA control and animal identification
of north -amerika .
we are not hiding anything about our
surveilliance progam in place

[cowman]

Well I only go with the flow and try for pounds because at the end of the day I get paid for pounds?
Roy Rutledge claims it doesn't matter what color they are? He says length of hip, long back, good haircoat always ring the bell. He sees a lot of calves sell?
My cows are pretty red. And I would suspect the majority would be in that 1400 lb. range. They get 22 lb. of 3 cent hay and pretty well all the straw they might desire. Never fed them until Nov 20th and they should be back out near the end of April.
A mid sized local feedlot owner told me they want Angus genetics...not Black or Red? They want to see the Angus in them because they will finish AAA and have a good yield and feed conversion.
I like Charlais cattle...I always have...but the times are a changin!

[cowman]

By the way: I have never sold all my calves off the cow. Never sell a heifer and only the bigger steer calves. This year I kept them all...probably not smart, but I was waiting for the tax money to come to town...it didn't! And then I got ornery and said to hell with this...no ones going to steal these calves!
Toughing them through. About 12 pounds of good hay a day and all the good straw they'll eat...doing very well healthy and look good. Throw them out on grass in May and hope like hell there is a bumper crop and some poor lost soul wants to feed yearlings in Aug/Sept!

[coppertop]

cowman, on one post you indicate that the cattle are your son's, and in this post you seem to indicate that you make the management decisions.

Hopefully you made the right one and you do okay with your calves off grass. Neighbours have opted to go that route as well. They run 600 cows and the calves will go to grass.

[cswilson]

Well if grain is high-yearlings off grass might not be all bad-we'll have 300 or so if I can get some heifers gathered up.

[rkaiser]

Cowman - that last ditch arguement that folks are using these days about still being paid by the pound is getting pretty old. Every breed in Canada has shown their ability to put on pounds in numerous tests.

Here is a little rebuttal to a recent article by one of our hero's Roy Rutteledge. (I generally like Roy's right wing slant) He took a run at Galloways in his last editorial in Alberta Beef magazine. I hope Wil V will print my response as it took a bit of time to produce.

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I have a lot of respect for one who lives by the sword. Especially in this day and age when the paperweight model has been replaced by a microsoft keypad and he or she has found the guts to use it in public. One such swordsman has taken a swipe at my breed of cattle in Alberta Beef Magazine lately and needs to know that living by the sword can bring on a sword in defense. If this warrior were a little more of a cattleman, he could see through the hair he so elegantly wears over his eyes, groomed by a few buyers in the front row of his auction market. He may see the same thing that that cagey buyer sees as a scapegoat and an opportunity. He may see the buyer who has a feedlot in mind which actually beds it’s cattle and has a market for a high quality, moderate carcass, rather than the shit filled pen lot dedicated to nothing but finding Cargill and Tyson the right size to fit their hook. He may see through that hair to find that beef production has nothing to do with breed, and all to do with type of cattle. Breed was the word he used to prompt this reply, and my breed is the word I will use to show his uninformed self that some of his words about hair are very true. I would bet that there have been many crossbred Galloway cattle that have passed through his sales ring at top prices without him ever knowing the breed, and even those conventional cattle buyers have seen the benefits of the Galloway cross carcass. Good haired continental cross cattle were not genetically created from Continental European cattle crossed with cattle from the same ***** like environment as their local cousins. It took cousins from the North and North West to add that inherent hair and hide. Cattle from Britain, which includes places like the Scottish Highlands and Wales where the very breeds Roy seems to think as wrong, originated. Could I also add that these cattle were mainly bred for meat as opposed to the Oxen like breeds of Continental Europe, where an eating experience was likely what Cargill and Tyson have been trying to steer us toward for the last few years. I am not going to say that every Galloway calf is a good one, but will not point out the flaws in a heavy boned calf and our current barley prices either – whoops. Any Purebred breeder, and obviously any Galloway purebred breeder has a disadvantage of being a bit different when he sells his culls and I would like to thank Roy for having the guts to warn us all to avoid his Auction barn with anything but what he feels is right. Auction barns are no place for niche market cattle and in fact are quickly becoming no place for the good cattle at all. Good luck with your business Roy, and good luck with your column, your time with both will pass, and maybe even before you would like, if some microsoft sword wielding cattleman with a little more industry knowledge decides to take a run at your little thrown.

Randy Kaiser Ponoka Alberta

[cowman]

Well you might have to clean up the language a bit? LOL
You are right that the local auction mart is not the place to market anything that doesn't fit the "model".
Roy Rutledge sometimes bugs me a bit too, with his editorials, but he does say it how he sees it!
When we first started cross breeding we used Red Angus, Salers, and a small amount of Gelvieh(very new at the time). That same year we bought two yearling bulls from Jim Cruikshank(char) Now these bulls were not cheap...I think $3700 each...1989. And we had one good thick Hereford bull.
At calving time we had a few pulls with the char calves and the hereford, none with the others. By fall the char calves out weighed everything else...to the tune of close to seventy pounds...and they were the cleanup bulls! Those yellow calves also outsold every thing else by as much as 7 cents a pound despite the heavier weight!
The next year I bought Cruikshanks four year old herd bull as well as semen from his Chairman bull.
I sold those two yearlings when they were about 6...one weighed 2650 the other was over 2700 right out of the pasture.
For years we did not keep any char cross heifers. The only ones we ever did keep were out of the old Cruikshank herdsire...because they were just so darned quiet and well made. They were too big, but a joy to look at.
Last year I think we pulled two calves out of 140. Our calves are pretty well all red with a few buckskins. They have a very strong red Angus percentage.

[rkaiser]

How about another bit of history cowman. The old man and I had purebred Charolais in he late 60's. Do you remember the Bingo bull or how bout Cadet. Powerful full french Charolais that we sold some commercial bulls off. A couple of my uncles had some wonderful 1100pound angus cows that we crossed these bulls on. Not much for calving difficulty, and some hellish good black nosed, haired up, beefy terminal calves.

[cswilson]

I've got some semen in the tank off Graychar Rousell a pretty good son off the old Cadet bull. I think the best Char. cows were off the old Cabotin bull-I used to work for Bill Hunt at Endiang so got to run with the Char. crowd a bit.