Bulls!

[cowman]

I guess there are good cattle in every breed.
On Limos: Impressive calves, but think life is too short to get killed by them! Never saw calves that could kick like those buggers!
Like Gelviehs. Used some Gelvieh semen back in the early nineties. The quietest Exotic...in my opinion.
I'm not out to change the world. Black cattle, with obvious heavy Angus influence, seem to top the market around here? The buyers seem to prefer them? I think you lose some weight but then some of these modern Angus bulls can really pack it on.

[farmers_son]

Whoa people….Lets stop and think about this for a moment.

Last time I checked the packers do not really seem to care about the color of the calves they buy. So why is a cow calf producer looking to change the color of his herd?

I really have never, ever seen a consistent price advantage for calves based upon color. Top calves of any color will sell well. If someone could point out to me a particular color of top quality calf that really does sell below the top price please point that out to me as I would be wanting to buy those calves for myself. I have seen some very good calves who happened to be black but really color had nothing to do with it. I really think the people buying the calves in the fall are more concerned with quality than color, at least they should be.

Since most of us keep our own heifers as replacements I think the purchase of a bull has to consider the quality of the cows that will come from that bull, not just the color of the calves that will sell in the ring. As Cowman pointed out temperament is a consideration, for the cow as well as the calf.

And lastly I would offer the opinion that the days of selling weaned calves in the sales ring are rapidly coming to an end. I think in the next few years there will be two classes of cow calf producer. One that has an off farm job and sells his calves in the fall and the other a full time producer who retains ownership and feeds his calves to slaughter. There will not be enough money in a weaned calf to sustain an operation in the next few years and it will be necessary to retain ownership to capture more from each and every calf. In fact it has been that way for a while now. Most cow calf producers have very little to do with calves in a feedlot but it might be a good idea to look at some calves after they leave the fall calf sales before choosing a bull (if your intention is to farm full time) because you may want to be raising calves that do well in the feedlot. Just my opinion.

[perfecho]

Honestly if you took the solid reds and solid blacks out of a bull congress or show and put them in a pen, it would be difficult to pick which is which. The angus have raised their performance, (and birth weights), the exotics have lowered their birth weights, (and performance). With all the hybred bull selling, it has almost gotten to a "Black" breed and a "Red" breed.
At our 4-H metting last night, a feed lot operator filled us in that anything finishing over 1500 is a big no no.
What I do find interesting in selling seedstock, is that customers are selling their product off grass, usually, and yet the best performers on grain are usually the ones chosen....just an oddity I find interesting.

[perfecho]

Had written my post before grassfarmer posted his...so further thoughts....If grain prices continue to hold, we may be looking for animals to carry and "harden" on grass, then finish quickly. Discussions last night brought up how one operator seems to be doing well with this method, but most of us seem to think get them in and out is cheapest...considering labor and yardage in today's market. The pencils were not out, but I am sure they will be soon try to establish which is cheaper.

[rkaiser]

You are right on with the color thing farmer_son, and I don't think that many cattle folks at the producer end are fooled by it either. Buyers - on the other hand. Went by the Western feedlot at Strathmore the other day and was amazed at the sight. You can see a lot of the pens from the highway and most of them were filled with black cattle. How many were actually Angus? The type of Angus bulls is so varied these days that I do believe these buyers are being fooled. Camrose Bull Congress is a good example perfco. Amazing difference among breeds and amazing similarities between.

When these black cattle that are in the feedlot reach or come close to finish is when the differences will show up.

In defense of cowman's attempt to go with the auction market flow - that is his business and his system. I will bet that he will choose Angus bulls with similar characteristics to the exotic bulls he has been buying, and will fit those buyers eyes because his cattle are now black. And also in defense of cowman's choice - this wise old bear will add hybrid vigor by choosing a breed that is different than his current.

Not many of my bulls will fit that mold cowman, but if you are looking at retained ownership like farmer_son suggests as the future - maybe you should take a look at perfco's bulls or yours truly.

[rkaiser]

canada did find one more bse case
it was a 7 year old so not to make any more headlines
willowcreek you did not have the whole story.
remember canada did test over 150.000
animals mutch higher than u-s-a and canada reports allcomprehensives measures !
we have the best up to date CFIA control and animal identification
of north -amerika .
we are not hiding anything about our
surveilliance progam in place

[cowman]

Well I only go with the flow and try for pounds because at the end of the day I get paid for pounds?
Roy Rutledge claims it doesn't matter what color they are? He says length of hip, long back, good haircoat always ring the bell. He sees a lot of calves sell?
My cows are pretty red. And I would suspect the majority would be in that 1400 lb. range. They get 22 lb. of 3 cent hay and pretty well all the straw they might desire. Never fed them until Nov 20th and they should be back out near the end of April.
A mid sized local feedlot owner told me they want Angus genetics...not Black or Red? They want to see the Angus in them because they will finish AAA and have a good yield and feed conversion.
I like Charlais cattle...I always have...but the times are a changin!

[cowman]

By the way: I have never sold all my calves off the cow. Never sell a heifer and only the bigger steer calves. This year I kept them all...probably not smart, but I was waiting for the tax money to come to town...it didn't! And then I got ornery and said to hell with this...no ones going to steal these calves!
Toughing them through. About 12 pounds of good hay a day and all the good straw they'll eat...doing very well healthy and look good. Throw them out on grass in May and hope like hell there is a bumper crop and some poor lost soul wants to feed yearlings in Aug/Sept!

[coppertop]

cowman, on one post you indicate that the cattle are your son's, and in this post you seem to indicate that you make the management decisions.

Hopefully you made the right one and you do okay with your calves off grass. Neighbours have opted to go that route as well. They run 600 cows and the calves will go to grass.

[cswilson]

Well if grain is high-yearlings off grass might not be all bad-we'll have 300 or so if I can get some heifers gathered up.