Bulls!

[cowman]

A controversial subject?
The boy has decided that we need a change. We need to "Go Black"...specifically Black Angus!
Now I'm not all that keen on this scenario...but hey all these cows are in his name...so what can I say?
I think I have him basically convinced that "easing into this thing" is better than a wholesale change!
So it is buy a couple and drag the old AI tank out again....I thought I was finished with my arm up a cows butt!LOL
We haven't bought a bull for about three years and he was a 4 year old char out of a real good cattlemans dispersal sale. He went down the road this fall.
I really don't like Angus...never did! But I will admit the times are changing and you have to go with the flow!...I talked and talked Charlais but it was a no go! I still think the Charlais breed was the best damned thing that ever happened to North America! Just my opinion.

[whiteface]

They make black Charolais, cowman. Get out yer wallet...don't get hurt! I personally love the Charolais too! Not sure how much more "black" we need.
Thanks for reading. have a good day all!

[coppertop]

geez, cowman get yourself a black limo and haul those calves to a black sale at either VJV or Daines, get top dollar !!!!!!!!

[rkaiser]

How long did you think it would take cowman.

www.teamauctionsales.com

Our 2007 string is now online. Don't be scared to let your son at the computer to read some of the things I wrote about the bulls.

Angus are good, Charolais are good, Welsh Blacks and Galloways are just as good.

Whoops --- just about forgot - Herefords are good too whitey!!!!

[grassfarmer]

Cowman, there are bigger problems facing producers than the color of bull they keep. How about trying to solve them?

[rkaiser]

I know you don't like ranchers.net grassfarmer but further to your comment to cowman - we actually have a pretty good thread going over there about "who will lead us into the future". Come and have a look.

[perfecho]

Hey, don't forget the black gelbviehs, kinda the best of both worlds and easy to get along with.....

[kato]

Our herd is Charolais, and we use red Limo. We love the cross. Get your son to find some Char/Limo calves and then see if he still wants black.

We keep hearing about good money being spent for silver calves, but personally have never seen it. Not in Manitoba any way.

[mb_rancher]

I agree Kato. I have used red limo bulls on char cross cows and they throw nice calves. Infact if you really want to fool the neighbors kick a Black limo bull in with your cows, he will usually throw red or balck calves.

Randy like the look of your critters I tried to call you the other night but jsut got your voicemail. Need to talk to ya so we can shoot the breeze before your sale.

[cswilson]

I'll see you at Fraser's sale on March 19th in Brooks-heck I can even deliver you some good Angus semen if you bring your tank-I'll have mine there.

[cowman]

I guess there are good cattle in every breed.
On Limos: Impressive calves, but think life is too short to get killed by them! Never saw calves that could kick like those buggers!
Like Gelviehs. Used some Gelvieh semen back in the early nineties. The quietest Exotic...in my opinion.
I'm not out to change the world. Black cattle, with obvious heavy Angus influence, seem to top the market around here? The buyers seem to prefer them? I think you lose some weight but then some of these modern Angus bulls can really pack it on.

[farmers_son]

Whoa people….Lets stop and think about this for a moment.

Last time I checked the packers do not really seem to care about the color of the calves they buy. So why is a cow calf producer looking to change the color of his herd?

I really have never, ever seen a consistent price advantage for calves based upon color. Top calves of any color will sell well. If someone could point out to me a particular color of top quality calf that really does sell below the top price please point that out to me as I would be wanting to buy those calves for myself. I have seen some very good calves who happened to be black but really color had nothing to do with it. I really think the people buying the calves in the fall are more concerned with quality than color, at least they should be.

Since most of us keep our own heifers as replacements I think the purchase of a bull has to consider the quality of the cows that will come from that bull, not just the color of the calves that will sell in the ring. As Cowman pointed out temperament is a consideration, for the cow as well as the calf.

And lastly I would offer the opinion that the days of selling weaned calves in the sales ring are rapidly coming to an end. I think in the next few years there will be two classes of cow calf producer. One that has an off farm job and sells his calves in the fall and the other a full time producer who retains ownership and feeds his calves to slaughter. There will not be enough money in a weaned calf to sustain an operation in the next few years and it will be necessary to retain ownership to capture more from each and every calf. In fact it has been that way for a while now. Most cow calf producers have very little to do with calves in a feedlot but it might be a good idea to look at some calves after they leave the fall calf sales before choosing a bull (if your intention is to farm full time) because you may want to be raising calves that do well in the feedlot. Just my opinion.

[perfecho]

Honestly if you took the solid reds and solid blacks out of a bull congress or show and put them in a pen, it would be difficult to pick which is which. The angus have raised their performance, (and birth weights), the exotics have lowered their birth weights, (and performance). With all the hybred bull selling, it has almost gotten to a "Black" breed and a "Red" breed.
At our 4-H metting last night, a feed lot operator filled us in that anything finishing over 1500 is a big no no.
What I do find interesting in selling seedstock, is that customers are selling their product off grass, usually, and yet the best performers on grain are usually the ones chosen....just an oddity I find interesting.

[perfecho]

Had written my post before grassfarmer posted his...so further thoughts....If grain prices continue to hold, we may be looking for animals to carry and "harden" on grass, then finish quickly. Discussions last night brought up how one operator seems to be doing well with this method, but most of us seem to think get them in and out is cheapest...considering labor and yardage in today's market. The pencils were not out, but I am sure they will be soon try to establish which is cheaper.

[rkaiser]

You are right on with the color thing farmer_son, and I don't think that many cattle folks at the producer end are fooled by it either. Buyers - on the other hand. Went by the Western feedlot at Strathmore the other day and was amazed at the sight. You can see a lot of the pens from the highway and most of them were filled with black cattle. How many were actually Angus? The type of Angus bulls is so varied these days that I do believe these buyers are being fooled. Camrose Bull Congress is a good example perfco. Amazing difference among breeds and amazing similarities between.

When these black cattle that are in the feedlot reach or come close to finish is when the differences will show up.

In defense of cowman's attempt to go with the auction market flow - that is his business and his system. I will bet that he will choose Angus bulls with similar characteristics to the exotic bulls he has been buying, and will fit those buyers eyes because his cattle are now black. And also in defense of cowman's choice - this wise old bear will add hybrid vigor by choosing a breed that is different than his current.

Not many of my bulls will fit that mold cowman, but if you are looking at retained ownership like farmer_son suggests as the future - maybe you should take a look at perfco's bulls or yours truly.