Not Just R-CALF

[Willowcreek]

Looks to me that the cattleman across the US all have concerns about the Rule 2 and don't support it as it is written.....


National Farmers Union
Quote:
“In the interest of U.S. producers and consumers, USDA should withdraw the proposed rule to expand Canadian beef and cattle imports. The department should also move to immediately implement mandatory country of origin labeling which would allow consumers to make an informed choice of where their food comes from.”


NCBA
Quote:
NCBA is reviewing the proposed rule along with a detailed economic and scientific analysis developed for NCBA members as we work to shape our comments. At last week’s annual meeting in Nashville, NCBA members did not reject the USDA proposal, but adopted a policy voicing concerns about its possible impact. The interim policy adopted February 3rd demands permanent identification of all live cattle imported from Canada through harvest, and calls for USDA to develop an orderly market transition plan before expanding the scope of cattle and beef imports from Canada.



R-CALF
Quote:
“This demonstrates just how ridiculous and premature it is for our government to be considering even further relaxations of our import standards that would allow into the U.S. imports of Canadian cattle older than 30 months (OTM) of age, as well as the government’s intention to allow into the U.S. beef products from Canadian cattle of any age,” Thornsberry continued. “OTM cattle in a BSE-affected country bear an inherently higher risk for the disease, so R-CALF calls for the immediate withdrawal of this proposed rule.

[jensend]

gee maybe you and your friends can push canada into testing every animal. are you sure that's what you want? american consumers might like the idea of tested beef from bse countries like the usa!

[farmers_son]

The science of BSE may be accepted on both sides of the border but politics are politics and the rhetoric is predictable.

If the shoe were on the other foot, how would the U.S. wants its trading partners to react when it discovers its next BSE positive? Would they want the science of BSE, the science that says the beef is safe, to be recognized? Or would U.S. producers just say that, hey, what is a little protectionism between friends.

[Willowcreek]

Problem is farmes_son- that most the other countries of the world don't buy into this "whats best for the multinational packers pockets driven science" being promoted by USDA and CFIA...
Most the other countries that found BSE are either testing all- or did test all and are now testing everything over either 20 or 30 month (not even an agreement on that number)...And thats all their consumers want or they are allowing to be imported....Many countries are allowing private companies to test and market tested beef...

And I don't think there are any BSE countries that are shipping live animals back and forth to further spread the disease!!!!

[rkaiser]

Don't try to hide out over here on agriville Willow creek. Get your butt over to ranchers and show me how your proud American butt is proud to be helping the packers gain control of OUR industry.

We have too many respectable folks up here on our Canadian site to watch me chew a whole in yer hide.

[Willowcreek]

I saw your same-o same-o theory rkaiser...But you're still wrong- and Sandhusker did a good job of showing you how R-CALF opposes most everything that the Packer boys you guys sold your souls to want...

[kato]

We have not "sold our souls" to the packers. That would imply a willingness on our part.

The packers are just a part of the bigger American based international corporation community that have come here to steal them.

[Willowcreek]

Kato- when you do nothing to counter it, it is selling your souls to my way of thinking-- all for the greed of getting on the gravy train of the US cattle and beef industries shirttails...

And it appears like your Canadian cattlemens groups are helping them to do it- because I never see them oppose these Corporate Packers or disagree with them...

Well- like they say- When **** is inevitable, lay back and enjoy it!! LOL

[rkaiser]

If I have sold my soul, Willowcreek, you are selling your children. Or at least sacrificing their future for a few bucks you think you might loose on a cull cow.

You know darn well that my theory is right willowcreek, as is the fact that your stand is ruining competition on both sides of the border. Your will is admirable, but your noodle is empty when it comes to the border.

For all intents and purposes, the border is open you old goof. The few cows that may cross the line would be swallowed in a moment and would only offset imports from another country.

Why is it that you won't believe a word that the packers say except when Cargill and Tyson say they want the border open? The only reason they may want it open is because they feel the end is near. They feel the heat from groups like ours who threaten the testing trump card which would stop all of their captive market games and return our industry to the free market it once was.

Instead of playing into their border game Willowcreek, why not concentrate on testing yourself? Why not follow the lead of Ben, or BIG C and remove the oligopoly control in your own country. There are a lot of constructive things that Rcalf could do Willowcreek, other than play the fools in the Border BSE final act.

[Willowcreek]

rkaiser-- My biggest worry right now on the border is not so much the danger of BSE-- but the worldwide perception of the danger of BSE...

If the border had been open that bull could have died in the US and have been tested and given the US another BSE positive to endanger that safety perception- which would not only hurt our domestic demand-but would again influence our export markets we're trying to get back...
And with the USDA's absence of having a tracking system for these imported animals we're taking a big chance...

The risk is not worth the gain....

I don't agree with everything you say- or what Ben says- but I do think you, Ben and Cam need to get together..The ideas are good-but I'm not that sure the goal is obtainable...But its worth a shot...

I'm not optomistic that the march of the Multinationals can be turned around...They have pretty much bought out or control everything they want to now from feedlots to government agencies to Politicians to Cattlemens groups-ABP, CCA, SSGA, NCBA, etc. etc...And from the input I see on this website it appears that most Canadians will be just plumb happy when they get back the old status quo of getting on the US gravy train and they think then everything will be hunky dorry...

[rkaiser]

Willowanka says -
"My biggest worry right now on the border is not so much the danger of BSE-- but the worldwide perception of the danger of BSE..."

And he belongs to Rcalf. Need I say any more.

Good night old boy, and don't let that nurse forget to give you your medication.

[cowman]

Now Willowcreek I don't know what kind of packing industry you have in Montana to send your culls to? Does Cargill or Tyson run a cow plant in Montana?
If you have a local cow plant, how will they compete when that 25 cent OTM meat starts coming across the border? How long will they be able to pay 55 cents for your old cows? A week?
When the local cow plant shuts down, then what? Do you butcher them out in the back forty?
If tommorrow, someone came up with a live test, would that satisfy R-CALF? I doubt it! You would have to find some new scheme to keep Canadian cattle out...because that is the sole reason for R-CALFs existance...whether you admit or not!
R-CALF is losing members...not growing! Despite convincing a bunch of fools to donate calves they are paying too many slick lawyers to try silly cases and keeping snakeoil salesmen like Bullard living the life of Riley!
I think the common sense American cattleman has looked at R-CALF and found them to be a group of liars and kooks! When Rule 2 comes into effect I suspect the membership roll will shrink to the hardcore idiots and somebody will be left holding the bag for the debts!
Attention all RATS: Time to abandon ship...she's about to go down!

[Willowcreek]

Not sure what all your babbling about cowman--Kind of sounds like you stayed to long with the gin bottle...LOL

Montana has NO slaughter houses-- they all closed down after the passage of NAFTA- and the glut of cheap Canadian beef...All Montana cattle go out of state for slaughter...

And if the border opens and the US cull prices drop like I think they will- it will again be a big recruitment tool for new R-CALF members...

[farmers_son]

I recently had an opportunity to speak with a cattle producer who has ranches in both Alberta and Montana. It was his view that R-Calf does not represent the views of the majority of cattle producers in the United States. I have on previous occasions pointed out that the problem is not R-Calf, the real problem is the United States which is ignoring the science of BSE and continuing to unfairly block trade in beef and live cattle for what is perceived to be the U.S. best interest. I would respectfully suggest that the restrictions in live cattle trade have been more in the interest of the U.S. packing plants than producers on either side of the border.

I would remind Willowcreek that when the border was closed to our under 30 month steers and heifers it caused the closure of numerous small packing plants in the Pacific North West and now U.S. cattle producers have to haul their livestock further at a direct cost to them. Of course, even those U.S. plants that survived their own governments blockade of the border suffered huge economic loses with layoffs affecting entire communities.

However I wonder how Montana would view Canadian live cattle if a packing plant were built in Montana that served the needs of cattle producers on both sides of the international border. Although on this side of the border I think there would be a concern that our access to such a packing plant could be restricted for whatever was the political reason of the day, such a packing plant would be a perfect example of how producers on both sides of the border could benefit from cooperation instead of conflict. I understand that labour is cheaper in Montana than in Alberta so it is not a huge stretch to think in terms of a packing plant in Montana, assuming trade barriers were not an issue. I would further point out that such a packing plant would provide competition to Cargill and Tyson, win/win for producers in Canada and the U.S. There can be no doubt that the present situation, where producers in the United States and Canada are divided by a trade barrier, benefits the large packing plants. United we stand, divided we are easy prey for the packing plants.

Cowman: Once trade in live cows resumes we Canadians would see an immediate increase in our live cow prices. I would not expect a decrease in U.S. live cow prices of more than one cent per pound. It is important for U.S. producers to understand that the increases they have seen in their live cattle prices have had almost everything to do with the decrease in their dollar versus world currencies and little to do with volumes or lack of volumes of Canadian live cattle. In fact the restrictions of live Canadian cattle caused the closure of a number of U.S. packing plants which would have certainly decreased the value of live cattle in those areas of the U.S.

[coppertop]

farmers_son, your comments are based on reasonable common sense thinking, and unfortunately that is not what the US has done!

If the dollars lost in communities in the US when plants closed were added up, I think the R-Calf deciples might realize just what their continued pressure on their government is costing their own countrymen. I am sure that each one of those plants paid taxes to their municipality and employed people.