Are we in a free country still?

[rkaiser]

I guess you found old farmer_son's button there grassfarmer. We all loose it at some point and say something utterly ridiculous, but that one farmers_son, takes the cake.

[farmers_son]

I'm sorry...I thought everyone was familiar with the have you stopped beating your wife or have you stopped kicking your dog question. You create a situation where no matter how the question is answered (or the resolution is approved or defeated) you end up guilty. Perhaps a bad analogy. Some resolutions may not warrant the press coverage they might receive if all defeated resolutions where published.

[grassfarmer]

rkaiser, I wasn't so much shocked at the offensive wife beating remark as the rest of the post. The conclusion after all the debate that "defeated resolutions should not be printed". The "Someone with an axe to grind" could be a regular producer with an original or different idea which a few of his fellow producers agreed on enough to get the resolution passed at a Fall producer meeting. "The resolution would not get passed the AGM but the deed would be still done." - THE DEED? - an idea coming from a producer(you know it's dangerous if them producers start coming up with ideas!)
So it's clear from this that resolutions from producers will not be approved unless the ABP dictators, sorry directors, personally approve them first. A democracy in reverse. Not content with this the defeated DEEDS must then be concealed from fellow producers lest they read them and think they were a good idea too.
Your attempts to prove that ABP are not an anti-democratic organisation are failing farmers_son. In my opinion you are just proving my case even further.

[coppertop]

farmers_son, your foolish 'wife beating' commente is unacceptable and certainly clouds all the excellent comments you have made over the time I have read your posts on this site. There is NOTHING funny about abuse, whether it is one's wife or dog that are on the receiving end !!

Grassfarmer made some excellent points in his letter, the membership and producers across the province should be able to read defeated resolutions, and if they are moved at a subsequent zone meeting and passed perhaps they will make it throught a second ABP process.

The key issue here as I see it, is the powers that be at ABP aren't really listening to the rank and file, only their own select few. This is not the way good organizations should operate, but as long as producers are content to sit on their collective rear ends and not take advantage of their right to vote at producer meetings, we will never have any change in direction at ABP.

[farmers_son]

I did say I was sorry. And Grassfarmer has made some good comments which is what made the discussion thought provoking for me.

This will be my last post on this thread. I can do no better to explain my point of view. Grassfarmer is suggesting the ABP should not only publish the passed resolutions but the defeated resolutions as well. On the surface this would seem to be a very reasonable request.

If I may, I will use this example. This is a public forum so I do not want to be too specific but please consider this.

Without going into details, a group of PETA supporters could form a majority at a fall meeting that was not well attended. Acting together, a number of resolutions could be passed perhaps something like this:

"Be it resolved that Alberta cattle producers stop torturing their animals." Now these resolutions would obviously not get passed at the AGM but if Grassfarmer was successful in his quest to have all defeated resolutions published the ABP would be duty bound to publish the fact that Alberta beef producers do not want to stop torturing their animals. No organization is going to put themselves in such a position. Producers sometimes need to be careful what they ask for because they just might get it. Another way to say that is the gods punish us by granting our wishes. There are often unanticipated consequences to what would seem to be, on the surface, very reasonable requests.

I apologize again for using what I thought was a very common example of what is called a loaded question. Please take the time to check out this link as it describes how loaded questions (or in this instance loaded resolutions) can be used to spread misinformation in the press and why any organization would never place itself in the position of having to publish questions or resolutions that were defeated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_many_questions

I try to make a point of being considerate of people’s opinions and never being rude or offensive to anyone. I am very sorry if some readers feel I have fallen short of that goal.

And yes ABP is not perfect but ABP is the industry leader and does a lot of good work too even if it is not appreciated by all.

[WilIow-Kreek]

No problem farmers_son.I have heard that expression lots of times and you explained it well.Ol'coppertop wants to be the language cop but if you read the whole thread there is no need for anyone to get their knickers in a knot.

[coppertop]

I am not interested in being a language cop Willow-Kreek, but this site is meant for producers to air their ideas, concerns and hopefully proposed solutions to industry issues. Name calling and comments that cast a reflection on the conduct of others aren't productive in any forum.

As far as defeated resolutions goes, AAMD C and AUMA always provide their membership with a report card of all resolutions passed and defeated annually. This serves to provide new members and in the case of ABP, new producers, with information on what has or has not been considered by the membership at the fall producer meetings.

I have certainly seen some questionable resolutions passed at producer meetings, ones that have little or no chance of moving forward but in a free country members have the right to propose and vote on these resolutions, and if the majority of attendees at a producer meeting choose to pass resolutions.

ABP has whatever mandate the producers give them and apathy has certainly played a huge role in how our industry is represented.

[grassfarmer]

Fair enough farmers_son, I accept your apology, this will be my last post on this thread also. The obvious mistake in your scenario of the group of PETA supporters getting a resolution passed at the Fall producer meetings is that they wouldn't be eligible to attend or vote. Only checkoff paying producers can do that and I don't think too many of them are PETA activists.

[farmers_son]

Coppertop: One last thing. I am sure glad I did not utter the words "there is more than one way to skin a cat" or you would have reached through my computer and strangled me. LOL.

[coppertop]

Ah, but farmers_son I wasn't the first one to chastise you for your comment. Randy was way ahead of me !!!!!