custom mineral program...

[Cattleman]

Couldn't agree more cs, there is something to that natural selection theory I believe. Our main focus on our farm is marketing hay, with the beef business where it is today, there is no money in feeding good quality hay to beef cows, our cows pretty much ate dusty weathered hay all winter, and just had salt. (I will admit we had a large waste though as well) We also calve in March, and believe it or not, most of our cows are bred, and calving was 100%. Our cows are low maintenance scavengers, and they seem to do just fine. I don't want to start tweaking the formula now. It may all sound very redneckish..but we have a vet in the family.
Believe it or not we even run purebred cows, and they survive, and are pretty well all bred, with minimal minerals, no plugs, no injections, etc.....and they still funcion...anyone looking for bulls??lol

[grassfarmer]

I don't claim to be an expert on mineral supplementation, I have raised the same questions as farmers_son on previous threads - do we need minerals? and if so how much? How much do you spend per cow in a year supplying minerals and salt farmers_son, cattleman or cswilson? I'd be interested to know as I am always looking to eliminate or reduce any purchased input costs.
I would certainly be happy to discontinue salt supplementation, I don't know anyone in Europe that fed salt to cattle and I doubt if they need it here either. Minerals I'm not so sure on yet as I don't have enough experience of Canadian conditions.

[rkaiser]

Not much arguement from this guy either. If your pastures are clean and free of chemicals and fertiliser - your air free of acid rain and such from the local gas plant, and your winter feed grown under similar conditions. We do put up fences however folks, and we do live in Canada where access to those things that cattle, or shall we say Bison or Deer, used to access on their own.

I could not agree more with Cory when he talks of pushing it. I would not take a chance on non supplementing,
hormone added, feed fertilised cattle.
Taking a chance on a natural approach is enviable and I do envy those of you who have found it working on your land. Condition of the cattle and hints like retained placenta in the spring will be the first things to tell you if it is not working. If your genetics are strong enough - you may be able to even overcome things like that and get those cattle bred back and working.

And by the way Cattlemen - you should have one of the best bull sales in Western Canada if folks truley looked at your program and understood it. Natual selection is aways better than dressing up.

[cswilson]

Cattleman what breed are you involved in and where at. Randy I just sent ten Brangus heifers over to one of your Galloway bulls up here-should be interesting I'm thinking.

[ProFarmer]

i went with a custom mineral and advice from coop feeds in brandon. They formulated things wrong and i had 8 beef cows go down with milk fever before calving. Their feed rep said to feed more calcium still more cows went down . I took my feed samples to another feed rep recommended extra magnesium oxide plus told me i killing my cows with feeding too much mineral. Cows improved over night on the new mineral. their stools tightened up as they were so loose all winter form the over feeding of mineral.I wouldn't recommend them to any body. Also their garrentee on their bag is totally bogas.

[victoire]

check www.bovineengineering.com Gearald Fry under mineral nutrition We are using a mineral mix that is basically a fortified salt mix with added essentials very reasonable price @ Greenbelt mill Wainwright Alta 780-842-9150 Mark Rajotte

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I've been watching this thread for a bit, and have a couple points to ponder.

First, for those who don't supplement mineral at all: Cattle, whether they be British or exotic are not native to Canada. These animals have evolved over thousands of years, _in their native habitats_, to be able to live and pro-create. While rancher selection of breeding stock will certainly speed up the process in which an animals physiology evolves to make it healthy in a different environment, we certainly haven't gotten to that point yet. I'd argue that once a cow was to the point where he/she would be completely healthy on Northern Canadian grasses with no supplementation, he/she would be a completely new species.

Second, human beings have evolved along side of the other animals in this world, and our bodies ask for certain minerals to survive and thrive. With our incisors, its obvious that we were intended by mother nature to be meat eaters, and as such, derive our nutrition primarily from meat. So if we start raising beef animals that aren't getting the necessary nutrients to be at peak condition, don't you think that will be reflected in the meat at butcher time? You get what you put in.

With the above in mind, I don't do much around here for supplementation. I've had my feed analyzed for nutrient levels, and have bought a free choice loose mineral that has the necessary nutrients in it to make up where my feed lacks. While my cows have proven they can make it with no supplementation (I tried it a couple years ago), I don't believe the meat I'm growing in this fashion is the healthiest it can be for my family, or the families of my customers.

Rod

[Cattleman]

Thanks for the comments Cory and Randy, its all about pursuing the marketing, and I had leased out some cows for a few years but I have them all back now, so only a couple of last pick bulls left. Cory, we are south of PA about 50km.

Interesting comments Diamond, I have not really thought of it that way, but do you have any info of how the mineral programs transfer to the meat? I know it is supposed to help the health of the animal, but not sure if goes beyond organs, etc. Do you test the meat? Another interesting thought is that we are all talking about feed testing for the animals, anyone test the feed they grow and eat themselves? We sure don't, sort of ironic isn't it!

[cswilson]

Cattleman-e-mail me your particulars were rodeoing fairly close by your place in the next month or so.

[DiamondSCattleCo]

"but do you have any info of how the mineral programs transfer to the meat? I know it is supposed to help the health of the animal, but not sure if goes beyond organs, etc."

I've never seen any research papers on how basic mineral programs will transfer to the meat, however if you look at the nutritional content of good red meat, there are some minerals and nutrients that a cow's body cannot manufacture due to the heat required and the complexity of the molecule. My thought was if she can't manufacture it, the only other place it can come from is her feed.

In addition, there have been numerous studies that do show "advanced" (for lack of a better term) supplements can be deposited in the meat. Certain types of feed additives can increase deposits of "good" fats, while decreasing deposits of "bad" fats for example. Other types of feed added to the finishing ration can reduce E-Coli. And I'm sure that every cattleman has seen the reports of higher than natural levels of hormones in implanted beef.

I've never had the opportunity to have my meat tested for nutritional content. I'm not even sure if such tests are available to the common man, at least at a cost that anyone can afford. And I've had the same thought as you, Cattleman. I probably look after my cattle better than I do myself. God only knows whats in those gut bomb burgers that I find myself buying at the gas stations from time to time, but I know I'd never feed it my cows

Rod

[rkaiser]

Funny how "us ranchers" are probably more concerned about this "meat content" issue than those who actually take the cattle from us (as cheap as they can mind you) and present it to the consumer. I am speaking of those "captains of the ship of life" - those "responsible corporate citizens" who along with the the USDA and CFIA we entrust our physical lives. Wait a minute - have I heard lately that these folks are actually money mongers who care more about share holders than E coli or the actual content of the food.

Yes Rod and Cattleman - it is up to us. If we simply listen to those Captains - money will quickly become our only reason for being as well.

Blast away if you like Cory - I am simply not going to shut my mouth. By surrendering our cattle to the conventional system we are allowing money to dictate the "hormones in the ears", the unnatural barley and a little silage diet which disrupts CLA and Trans 9's and 11's, and God knows what else, and causes more of a chance of E coli than cattle who's shit does not run out of their bodies like a fire hose.

"Don't buy those hairy cattle "Captain Roy Rutthead will say" they have more chance of spreading E coli due to the tag on that unGodly hair." What a Joke -

And yes I still work regularly on my Sarcasm issue with my therapist.

I do not want to condemn the conventional industry - but the more that a person allows himself to learn about it the harder it becomes. Yes I will sell my product on the positive attributes, but lord help those who follow those Captains once the consumer educates him/her self and see things like the pathetic excuses that idiots like Bush are making for not allowing Creekstone Farms to test for BSE.

Not that I believe that BSE will cause a catastrophic human suffering mind you, but the simple fact that government and industry are playing with rules that affect the bottom line for those who they choose rather than other more ethical reasons.

[Cedar]

"Trans 9's and 11's" - Huh? (Sorry, me totally "duh", never heard of these!)