ABP latest move

[DiamondSCattleCo]

"Why force someone to do something that they don't want to do? In that situation they surely won't do it very well."

This is a scare tactic used by the SSGA guys. "If we force them to do it, people will report the wrong ages and break down the integrity of the system".

Put some stiff damned fines on people who refuse to properly report ages. I know alot of guys who refused to CCIA ear tag their livestock until the auction markets started dinging them 20 bucks a pop to tag them. Then they smartened up and started complying. Its a weak arguement to use against something that is every bit as important as tagging your calves.

Rod

[smcgrath76]

I guess my thoughts on this are different. How about finding guys that operate in a similar fashion and marketing calves as a group, how about telling your auction market to get their A$% in gear and announce the calves, how about selling direct, how about custom feeding rather than keeping calves at home, how about 100 different options to get more money for the cattle?
There are opportunities out there but they don't come from traditional methodology. I think that if all calves are age verified, and there are fines in place for failure to do so, then the end result is that calves will be priced off the US, less the basis and packers/wholesalers/retailers will capture all of the premium as every calf will fit the requirement, so why pay a producer more when there are roughly 5 million other calves that are the same spec. If they are somewhat rare, they should be worth a bit more.
PS. I do not profess to be a fan of SSGA.

[kato]

As of this year, producers who vaccinate with Express vaccine can get that information linked to the CCIA database.

Is there any reason why ages couldn't be linked the same way? I wouldn't mind if the ages of our cattle could be retreived from the database when the numbers were entered. There is no need for any other information, just the birthdate. The information is there already. It just needs to be available to anyone who owns the cattle down the line.

This would do away with a whole lot of paperwork when the calves are sold.

[DiamondSCattleCo]

"I guess my thoughts on this are different. How about finding guys that operate in a similar fashion and marketing calves as a group, how about telling your auction market to get their A$% in gear and announce the calves, how about selling direct, how about custom feeding rather than keeping calves at home, how about 100 different options to get more money for the cattle?"

All your proposals are reasonable, however they all have some holes in them that make them less than desirable.

Group selling is a pretty good option in my mind. I tried that this year, however I couldn't gather up 100 steers of like weight and conformation. My area has about 30,000 head in it, however almost everyone uses exotic stock to some degree. That leaves us British guys looking elsewhere.

And I spoke to my auction barn. They are perfectly willing to sell batches of age verified animals, as long as they don't have to sort them. Since the oilpatch has stolen a whack of workers, the auction barns have a VERY tough time getting enough help to sort based on conformation and weight, much less adding another variable into the mix. All this for what amounts to less than 20% of the calves crossing their scales.

Selling direct is also ok I spose, but if you have top end cattle, you lose money. Each year I have feedlots come out and look over my calves to get a bid. Each year at the barn, I end up 5 - 8 cents above the high bid. So I'd gain 3 or 4 cents for age verification, but lose 5 - 8 cents.

Like I said, the economics aren't there to make it work. And as long as that remains true, the vast majority of Canadian cattle will remain unverified and the packers that need those verified cattle won't be able to get them.

And custom feeding. Well we won't go there. Thats a hell of a high risk venture. High cost (compared to doing it yourself) with no guarantee of return. Hell, the last 3 years there haven't been returns on feeding yourself, much less having someone else do it.

Anyway, we could go back and forth like this for months, and I doubt either of us would be able to convince the other.

Kato,

You make a valid point, and its a sore spot with me. The CCIA needs some help, and in a big way. They have a $12,000,000/yr budget, yet only register 3,000,000 animals. Thats $4/animal cost to the taxpayer and the cattle producer. Private firms doing animal registrations are charging 50 cents per animal, and making money hand over fist. The systems development budget for the CCIA is right out of hand given the trivial nature of the database and technology in use. As a business analyst, I know what it costs to build database applications. The CCIA database is TRIVIAL. If someone on one of my teams couldn't build the database and the front end in a week, they'd be looking for new jobs.

Rod

[grassfarmer]

Kato, "I wouldn't mind if the ages of our cattle could be retreived from the database when the numbers were entered. There is no need for any other information, just the birthdate. The information is there already. It just needs to be available to anyone who owns the cattle down the line." This is how the system works now - try it if you don't believe me.

[grassfarmer]

Rod,
What extra work sorting would there be for the auction? unless you sell at a presort there is no sorting needed - just read out the damn age verif. note from the producer.

"Like I said, the economics aren't there to make it work. And as long as that remains true, the vast majority of Canadian cattle will remain unverified and the packers that need those verified cattle won't be able to get them."

If the economics you speak of are the (minimal) costs of age verifying and the packers want them verified they can damn well pay for it - that's what this free enterprise system is all about.

[smcgrath76]

You are probably right Rod, we will likely never change our minds. I am open to learning how when every calf is age verified that I or any other producer will receive more for my calf. If they are as scarce as you say and they are needed that badly, I am pretty sure someone will find the money to reward the efforts of those of us who age verify.

[DiamondSCattleCo]

"I am open to learning how when every calf is age verified that I or any other producer will receive more for my calf."

Pardon if this seems a little fragmented. My feelings on this matter stem from several areas:

I've heard from more than one buyer that Cargill/Tyson are currently snapping up all the age verified animals they can find, bidding out the small guys. I realize this is well within the realm of a conspiracy theory, but I can see it. Tyson/Cargill are attempting to fill the Asian market with cheap grass fed beef from South America and Australia. Why would you want to throw in a better tasting, more expensive product as competition to that, especially since they are finally gaining acceptance of their grassed product? I know that all my age verfied calves have went south of the border.

Many of the smaller operations that want to ship into Asia cannot necessarily afford to pay a large premium right at this moment. Lets face it, many of our small Canadian plants are struggling to get by. If every calf was age verified, they'd be on an even footing with the big guys at bidding time. So they'd get access to age verified calves, and be able to sell some of those higher value cuts into Asia, raising their earnings. I do believe those earnings would eventually trickle back to producers, at least until the small timers got big and decided to begin operating as another Cargill/Tyson/Swift.

I've heard other producer analysts echo the same sentiments as the smaller packers. "Insufficient age verified cattle to reliably supply the Asian market." So when I hear it from two independent sources, I have to start listening. In any free market, the more customers you have, the higher the price. I have no doubt that once the Asian market got a taste of our barley fed products again, they'd desert the grass fed market in a heartbeat. At least those that could afford to do so.

Rod

[rkaiser]

Why do we worry about something being a conspiracy theory. I guess it's because the truth behind some theory's is hard for us to take.

The truth is that (in the case of Cargill and Tyson in Alberta) money dictates every move. No conspiracy there. Just greed. Of course every segment of the industry will be looked at in an attempt to thwart new growth and maintain and entrench control.

The only conspiracy in our industry is the one that comes out on this thread once in a while, and runs rampant among our so called industry leadership. Conspiring to stop anyone from talking about things that may not be in the best interest of Cargill and Tyson.

[kato]

Grassfarmer, I tried it, and got no information. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place???

[grassfarmer]

Kato, it should work. Sign into your account and then go under "reports", click on create a birth certificate then put in the tag of any animal you have. If it is age verified you should then be able to print off a certificate. Repeat for as many tags as you have - this part gets endless!

[kato]

Thanks! It works!