CCA comments

[rkaiser]

Interesting perspective farmers_son.

As far as Old Willowcreek - we all know what his perpective is "Anything to blame Canada when it comes to BSE."

Like most Willocreek posts - In one eye and out the other Old Boy.

- Until you finally admit, like you did on the ranchers site, that both of our governments need to be held accountable for BSEconomic decisions.

[grassfarmer]

Not passive Randy, just I've "enjoyed" more and deeper effects of BSE crisis than most of you here. It's like looking back on one of those brilliant holidays and trying to explain it to a stranger - unless you were there you just can't understand what it was like. BSE in Europe is a bit like that for me.
I've said it before and I say it again, BSE will never be "solved" or addressed properly without willful co-operation from Europe and the UK in particular and you will not get that as it would be political suicide to raise the issue again.

[cpallett]

Interesting thread. Lots of opinions. Wish I could particularly disagree with any of them, but as far as I can tell they all seem to contain an element of truth.

To try to set the record just a little bit straight, I do not know how the comment that the Feds never told anyone about the first 1993 BSE heifer (that's Salers with an 's' at both ends) came about. What the Feds neglected to tell anyone was that they had allowed 80 UK cattle imported between 1982 and 1990 to enter the animal feed chain in Canada between 1990 and 1994. Their own risk assessment completed in May of 1994 indicated that there was a 100% probability that one or more of these cattle had BSE. Hmmmm. These were imported UK cattle that the Feds were supposedly 'monitoring' since April 1990 in order to prevent them from spreading BSE to Canada. Some monitoring.

Seems to me that fessing up to Canadian producers that you had dropped the ball and bringing in a ruminant feed ban ASAP was the right thing to do. The Feds instead chose to keep their mouths shut and ignore the whole thing. We will have to wait and see whether the Court finds that exercising that particular option was OK.

Kato, FYI that Salers heifer diagnosed with BSE in December 1993 was one of 8 birth cohort animals (embryos from France implanted into heifers in England) born in the summer of 1986 and imported into Canada in January 1997. All were fed the same calf starter ration in the UK. Two of these birth cohort Salers were among the 80 UK cattle that made it into the animal food chain in Canada. Grassfarmer will doubtless have a pretty good idea now where the BSE in Canada came from. In fact, the Feds have as much as admitted it in the CFIA report published in January 2006; "These temporal BSE clusters may have resulted from the initial BSE infection that entered North America through the importation of cattle from the U.K. during the period from 1982 to 1989. One or more of these imported animals, without necessarily demonstrating signs of the disease, may have entered the North American feed system between 1991 and 1992 and caused the first generation of BSE in Canadian cattle."

FYI grassfarmer, one of the birth cohort Salers heifers entered the animal food chain in Canada in October of 1992 at the age of 6 years 3 months. My educated guess is that this is the cow that caused the whole mess. We will have to wait and see what the Court thinks.

I really don't believe that the Feds are entitled to lose track of 80 cattle that they are supposed to be montoring to prevent the spread of BSE, allow them to be slaughtered and rendered in the usual course, and then when they finally figure it out don't tell anyone, and don't do anything. That strikes me as negligence. Of course, my opinion is just my opinion and really doesn't matter. What will matter at the end of the day is the Court's opinion.

wd40, you also are right, the science is still unfolding. So is the science that says cigarettes cause lung cancer. We still don't know exactly how that works, but the epidemiological evidence is overwhelming. Same with BSE, in my respectful view, although I understand that hardheads like that terrible Kaiser guy may disagree. Frankly I welcome the discussion. Keeps me learning.

Willowcreek, I hate to disappoint you on two scores. Firstly, kato is right and all of the allegations against the Feds predate the creation of the CFIA. The CFIA has done a brilliant job and Canadian beef is not only the safest, but clearly the tastiest in the world. I won a bet on that score many years ago with a couple of friends from Iowa and Texas. It is still the truth today. Canadian beef tastes better. Get used to it. Secondly, the only people that can sue the Feds are Canadians, and that is a very uphill battle indeed, even for us. Stick to lobbying your own government. Maybe one day you will figure out that we are all in this together and your guns are better pointed downrange. Hope springs eternal.

[rkaiser]

Got ya grassfarmer. Each of us has our own experience all right. Mr. Pallett and I have discussed the potential for myself being the plaintiff should we need one in Alberta, but I can't do it. I have suffered losses on a few cull cows and bulls, and may have had a few American sales quashed; however our meat program was going prior to BSE and that has allowed us significantly less loss than the average guy.

So why did I help found BIG C, and why do I remain vocal? Because I see a wrong here grassfarmer. A wrong here that is costing me customers. Customers as in primary producers who did not deserve any of this. I have said many times and been told by the like of Cory Wilson to "shut up and sing", but I can not. If I see willingness by "anyone" else to make a change to this dismantling of a perfectly good and viable industry -- I will support them. Whether that be a lawyer with a passion, an NFU mouthpiece like our vocal and "right" Dutch friend, or a man with a dream to stop the domination of our industry by two companies with power and greed written into their mission statements. ie Mr. Cam Ostercamp. Our food supply does not belong in the hands of those who care about nothing but profit. And every time we choose the easy route of not challenging them, we lose more ground in the battle for our children in the future.

This lawsuit may seem to be about government, and like Kato says, may even be better without Ridley. However this lawsuit is about decisions. Decisions made by the government but directed by corporate agriculture.When these decisions are shown to be the wrong decisions, I for one, will be all over the fact that corporate agriculture was behind this whole mess. Not to the point of causing BSE, but seeing opportunity and directing the government to allow them to be obscene profit takers while the primary producer sucked the proverbial hind tit.

Oh yes - by the way Mr. Wilson, I will have our new company web site up and running very soon.

Celtic Beef Alliance - Caring - Credible and Candid

[Willowcreek]

Farmers-son to correct you--
In 1989 the US quit issuing import permits for cattle or any beef containing products from known BSE countries/areas....

In 1990- the US was the first country in the world without BSE to begin a BSE testing and surveillance program...

1996- US ranchers organized a voluntary feedban, which established an industry standard against feeding ruminant-derived protein to cattle.

In 1997- that feedban was made federal law and enforced by the FDA.....

And to this date the US has found NO POST FEED BAN positive animals (altho about 1/2 million cattle have been tested)....

Whats Canada's number now-- 6 POST FEED BAN positives out of 12 (in a herd 1/8th the size of the US herd)....And being found in cluster areas, which according to the science reviews I've read means its more prevalent than what is actually being found...

Chirp Away- Farmers_son... Looks to me like Mr. Pallet could have a pretty strong case of misdoings by the Canadian government- Just too bad he can't draw the USDA/AMI involvement into the picture with some of the "joint ventures" and "backroom deals" where they put their economics ahead of consumer/herd safety....

[catlman]

Wk how many times does it have to be shown that the US feedban was the same as the canadian one. And yes until 1990 you were importing and feeding potentially BSE infected MBM and yet had only 2 cases. what are the odds? I was born on a day but not yesterday. The only plausible explanation is that the US is not reporting all the positives. As much as you want to deny it the levels are most likely identical in the US and Canada so that would mean you guys are missing 20 or so cases a year. NO THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH BSE IN THE US. I am tired of listening to this crap, quit the blame game and let us cattlemen US and Canadian fix this NOW. Start testing every OTM animal- NO EXCEPTIONS, Implement a real feedban with NO loopholes and a SRM management plan for both the US and Canada like the one about top be implemented in canada. Let us fix this thing and quit letting others get rich because we are busy playing the blame game. United we can win divided we fall.

[Willowcreek]

Yep- Test all is what you should have done/should be doing instead of this new SRM removal plan - a lot cheaper in the long run, would reassure consumers of safe beef, and could have opened up other markets for your beef instead of having to ride the US's hind teat...

This plan now is just a further divider between the two countries ranchers...First off the additional rules tells US cattlemen/consumers that the Canadian government (CFIA) recognizes or believes Canada has a greater problem than the US-- then it again pits the US cattleman against The Canadian because with the costs of this rule IF the border by chance should open it would be more economical to ship all cattle to the US for slaughter (where there isn't the cost of these rules)- further destroying the US cull market-- while making the US the dumping ground of the higher risk potentially infected SRM's.....

[cpallett]

Willowcreek you are a silly, silly man. The Canadian government's excuse for not bringing in a feed ban in 1994 was that we had to keep pace with the US and they did not have a feed ban. So both countries suffered the economic scourge of BSE as a result. Now you want to criticize Canada for finally banning SRMs in all animal food 17 years after the Brits did it. Too little, too late, but certainly had to be done.

Testing does not solve the problem. An enhanced feed ban solves the problem. You are like a quack doctor that thinks aspirin is the way to treat a brain tumour. The pain may go away briefly, but the problem remains. Let us thank all the Gods that even the CFIA aren't that thick.

[grassfarmer]

"Testing does not solve the problem. An enhanced feed ban solves the problem." That's a rather bold claim Mr Pallet as it implies that we have a full understanding of BSE and it's spread which we do not. It also goes against everything the late Mark Purdey believed in which I'm not entirely comfortable with. One of his statements to me was that although thousands of tons of MBM was exported from the UK to north Africa throughout the 1980s they never had a case of BSE - explain that one. If the enhanced feed ban solves the problem how come the UK still had 148 cases of BSE in the first 10 months of 2005 - 9 years after their enhanced feed ban came in?

Bottom line this is yesterday's battle in my opinion - can't you find someone to sue for last fall's disastrous calf prices? they were way worse than anything BSE caused and there was no Government compensation.

[Willowcreek]

And everyday that Canada doesn't test, an unknown number of positive animals may be going into the food chain- with still enough infection even after SRM removal, to infect tons of meat...All of which could come back to really bite us/Canada in the butt 15- 20 years down the line...

Better oil up your law books- Mr. Pallet--As you know, since consumers are unable to identify Canadian meat in the US and are by default almost forced to eat it if they want to eat beef--so if/when cases of vCJD begin appearing it will be Canada that is blamed for the whole problem--since the US government has told the US consumer that the US does not have BSE anymore...

Nope- Both Canada and the US should have done a strict policy from the day BSE was discovered (like they originially had in place- Packers be damned)- which includes both SRM removal and testing all OTM's (over twenty months)-- but they instead muddled thru, continually changing the rules for the Big 4 multinatinals- and now have a set of rules that doesn't truly identify the extent of the problem, protects no-one, will eradicate nothing for 15-20 years and gives these Packers a chance to again manipulate the cull prices down if they get the border open....