Budget

[kato]

I've been watching the news faithfully ever since yesterday, and I've come to the conclusion that we don't exist.

What does a person have to do to get noticed around here? Should every farmer in Canada take out a membership in the Liberal or NDP parties? Would anyone notice if they did?

As far as I can see this budget is just a bunch of rhetoric laid out to protect some political butts from being drummed out of office. Even the so called 'stimulus' portions of it come with so much baggage that it's like they were set up so no one would use them. Where have we seen that before eh?

I would be willing to bet that not one cent of the so called funds for increasing slaughter capacity are ever spent. They are not meant to be spent. They are just there to give the illusion that something is being done.

I'm getting totally fed up with the whole bunch of them. I think it's time for an election.

That NFU membership is sounding pretty good too right now. From what I've seen it's the most broad based group around. Rather than pitting commodities against each other, it's more of a stick up for the little guy no matter what he/she grows attitude, and I like it. Even if there are issues that grain and livestock people don't agree on, I think it's safe to say we all agree that we need to stick together or else there won't be anyone left to disagree with other than the Cargill's of the world.

[Sawbones]

GF I wouldn't count the grain farmers out as being opposed to feeders. A point was raised at a feeder meeting that it takes 60 bu of barley to traditionally finish 1 steer. 500,000 calves went stateside for the past two years. That's a market for 30,000,000 bu or about $90,000,000. That's a market that grain producers will have to find elsewhere. With Cargill's control of seed, fertilizers etc, they probably have more of a hold on grain producers than cattle people. I still can't agree with the NFU direction that we need to contract and go the way of a marketing board. I do think that branded products with delivery contracts that are renewable is much more attractive

[per]

Sawbones, that is how I have felt as well and why I support CG and am looking seriously at Diamond Willow. Were does a marketing board leave these programs in the NFU grand scheme of things GF. I have to admit that the NFU report and your compelling well thought out arguments are stimulating the old thought process. As far as the NFU being the one lobby voice to count on. I think the whole Ag industry will go down the drain and completely collapse before we could get 50% of Ag folks to sing off the same song sheet of any stripe. There is just too much stubborn independence (our strength as well) to cooperate to that extent.

[mb_rancher]

Yup I totally agree cattle producers DO not exisit. We can go broke and nobody would even care until they headed to the store to find that there was no beef in the store. But i forgot the way Cargill and the big multi nationals would be able to supply them with beef but it wouldnt be cheap. Does anyone know where the $50million is headed that is being promised to the packing plants???

[max]

Yep there's one big hole to fill but even here there is differring of opinions as to who should weild the shovel. I dont care what group does it but to me the main message to get across is that here in Canada we have a cheap food policy and that has to change. The government has implemented this through tax incentives to new companies,trade policies and even by willing to retrain farmers(food producers) to get them out of Agriculture. The sameland base will still produce the same amount of food with fewer people doing the work, at the same cost of production. So what the hell does that accomplish? There needs to be some serious public relations done to promote the fact that food producers are being seriously underpaid for the products that we supply to this nation. If our vehciles and our clothing was produced with third world slave labour the Government here in Canada wouldnot allow that to happen without putting pressure on those guilty.

[smcgrath76]

$50,000,000 for packers as I understand it is matching funds for producer investment. So, producers have already invested and built 2 plants in western canada and started a 3rd (NVF, Ranchers and Rancher's). Does this count? Does XL's purchase of Lakeside count?
As for a coordinated voice I think that gets difficult, from the perspective of independence but also from the perspective of many producers owe a lot of $ to input companies, etc.
I don't think there is anything inherently evil about these companies, but they certainly have developed a stranglehold over many producers. Not to seem facetious but I suppose due credit is deserved for working the system to their advantage. We could learn from that as producers.
As far as AG being on the agenda, it is not. Quite frankly it is not even the most important industry in the Ag minister's own riding.
On the upside I see the oil industry is getting some backing in the new budget.

[kato]

I think a good use of the 50 million would be to use it to upgrade existing provincial plants to federal status. The best way to have a new producer driven operation succeed is under the radar. To just try and start a multimillion dollar facility from scratch, and build a market for the product is extremely difficult. It's like these new high end plants have got a big target painted on them and the bigger operators know just how to deal them out of business.

I'm not sure about the other provinces, but there are lots of small independent abbatoirs in Manitoba, and they are run by experienced people who know the business. What's stopping these existing business from expanding into larger ones is the lack of ability to sell the meat out of province.

These smaller already functioning facilities could grow at a more reasonable pace that would more likely succeed. They could expand at a rate that matched the market they were reaching. They would have time to develop a customer base, and not have to go millions of dollars into debt on the speculation that they might be able to move the product later.

Will the federal government do anything this sensible this with the money? I will believe that when I see it. They haven't shown any indication yet that they have a clue. They are far more likely to just cut a cheque to XL or Cargill and pat themselves on the back.

[grassfarmer]

Sawbones, that's fine you don't have to agree with all the 16 solutions suggested by the NFU but please do not dismiss the work on those grounds, get involved, add your ideas. The suggested solutions are not cast in stone they were proposed as solutions to be discussed with all beef producers until we can reach a consensus. I do not believe that the NFU document advocates an automatic herd reduction to supply only domestic production but it does highlight the fact that the greatly ramped up production that we have exported since 1989 has not done us any good - the volumes exported rose by something like 8 times the start volume but the prices to producers have halved (adjusted for inflation).
What we are saying is not that exports should be stopped but that the exporting we have been doing with the current packing structure has been a disaster. If we were able to achieve the most important points of the 16 NFU solutions ie break the packer monopoly and captive supply systems we would then be in a position of potential profit for beef producers in both domestic and offshore markets.

Unfortunately our meetings in Edmonton today with AB ag officials were disappointing - they agreed with some of the proposed solutions but there were some that they felt uncomfortable supporting. Guess which ones? tackling the packer monopoly and captive supply. I guess they feel intervention would be "anti-free market" which is an irony as you couldn't get much more anti free-market than some of our current practises. I was not impressed with that - and we highlighted to them that unless they can deal with these obstacles their ALMS solution will go nowhere either.

[grassfarmer]

Max,
I would have to disagree with your comment on the "cheap food policy". This is not what is bankrupting producers it is what we could call another false cause of the current crisis. The data contained in the extended form of the NFU document highlights the fact that consumers are paying a very similar price (adjusted for inflation)to what they paid in the 33 years from 1975. Canadian consumers are paying only a bit less for beef than they were 20 or 30 years ago - farmers are getting half as much - the consumer is not the problem.

I like to say that we have not a "cheap food policy" but a "cheap raw material policy". Government policies are geared to subsidise producers through bailout packages to remain on their farms rearing cattle at below the cost of production - to supply the raw materials the packers and retailers profit from.

We must not falsely accuse the consumer of causing our problems because they are innocent - they pay plenty for their beef and they also pay the taxes to bail us out. We must unite with the consumer to get political action, and we should be telling them where the dollars are really going in our beef production process not demanding they pay more for beef.

[mb_rancher]

With all this being said has anyone heard that Obama has put COOL legislation on hold until he changes it. Ive heard that it wont be Canadian freindly when hes done with it. Market is ready to start feeling the effects.