George Groeneveld Is Not An Honest Man

[kato]

A question from someone out of the loop... How is it tied to CAIS?

Could it be that it's been diluted in an effort to "level" the field between provinces? Is it an effort aimed at lowering help to you so they don't have to increase it for the rest of us?

Which makes it even worse.

[BFW]

Farmers Son this has to be the biggest load of garbage you have have tried to dump on us yet. This is clearly an effort on your part to dicredit Minister Groeneveld in his efforts to help the beef industry in this province much to the displeasure of your cronies at ABP. Anyone who has been even remotely close to the AFRP process (and your involvement at ABP would give you this) knows that the second portion of the AFRP payment was based on how much was paid out in the first installment. Clearly they underestimated the amount that would be paid out in the first payment. Minister Groeneveld should be commended not dumped on. He has shown great leadership and fortitude from the start and his motivation is to help find a new direction for the beef industry in Alberta not to reduce the cowherd. Reduction of the cowherd by some 30% is a stated ABP option for saving the industry that you may like to explain. The train is leaving the station FS,you had better quickly decide if you want to get on.

[grassfarmer]

From "Roping the Web" November 2008.

"Question 23. How much will my second instalment be?
AFRP II was based on information from the AgriStability program. There have been additional eligible producers come forward and register for AFRP II, who were not part of AgriStability.

To date, we have paid out almost $190 million; therefore $110 million remains available for the second instalment. It is impossible at this time to determine the amount these producers will receive as their second instalment, or the number of eligible producers who will meet the requirements."

Seemed clear enough to me - no dollar sum quoted, no promises that couldn't be met. I never get excited about Government program payments, you take what comes and bank it but I wouldn't spend it before I got it.

[smcgrath76]

GF - the lots are being built, and lots of them. I think the AB lots will have to bid pretty dearly to get cattle out of SK this fall.
The cash advances that are available in AB are tied to CAIS. They don't hold the cattle as collateral, they hold your CAIS account as collateral.
I think we need to be cautious about how secure we are in our feeding/slaughtering industry in Canada and in AB.

[farmers_son]

BFW: Maybe you would care to share with readers here just how much you got from AFRP. Maybe if I, as a cow calf operator, got even 1% or 1/10 of 1% of what you received as a feedlot operator I would be as supportive of George as you are.

And yes the second cheque was based on the first cheque, in fact it was to be the same amount as the first cheque and separate from CAIS; at least that is what I heard George say out loud and in person. Straight from the liars mouth so to speak. I agree that the government did let slip in the final days before the application deadline that the payment might be reduced but a lot of producers filed before all that on good faith that the Minister would keep his word. It is fair to say that any communications that the payment that was contigent upon age verifying, premise ID and signing the forms might be less than the first cheque was separate from the application package and after the fact for many producers. At no time did the government ever indicate that the second cheque would be reduced to the extent it was even though that would have been known certainly before the deadline date. George was telling two stories and that is fact. George Groeneveld is not an honest man, he says one thing and does another. If producers had known how small the second cheque was going to be they would not ever have been sucked into Georges lies.

And most producers realize that ALMA is a big lie too. A lie that the government is trying to help the cattle industry when the only purpose is to regulate the average sized cow calf producer out of business while transfering wealth from the cow calf guy to the packers.

[dfarms11]

Maybe it was just me procrastinating and not doing things until the deadline, but I knew my second cheque wouldn't be as much as the first. Heck, I didn't even know if I was going to bother with the age verifying my calves since I wasn't going to get much from the second cheque. But then I thought, well my family sure wouldn't mind a supper out as that is about all it would cover!

[grassfarmer]

Sean, I'm interested in this feedlot expansion in SK - what part of the province is it happening in?, what scale of lots are you talking about being built - huge scale or family farm sized lots? If these are large enough scale to compete with the AB ones who is building them and will they become custom feedlots for the existing packers in Canada or the US? If not this would surely mean an over building of feedlot capacity? Given the capital cost of constructing a modern feedlot I can't see much sense in building new ones in SK and leaving the ones here empty. The cost of regulation in AB would be substantially less than building a new feedlot elsewhere. I'm intrigued by this development

[grassfarmer]

Farmers_son,
Why the envy of the feedlot sector? this payment is obviously inventory linked so of course a guy with 10,000 head in a feedlot will get many times the payment a 200 cow/calf operator will get. I don't see anything wrong with that. And you can't say cow/calf operators have all the work to do to age verify and the feedlots have none. The feedlot sector has been movement recording since Jan. 1st if I'm not mistaken. On the other hand all you had to do was fill in the forms and apply for a premis ID as you were already age verifying your calves.
When you talk money, more is always good, but this was the easiest money I've earned in a while so I don't know what you are complaining about.

[smcgrath76]

GF - no argument our feeding capacity is overbuilt (and still growing). Lots in SK within the last 5 years are anywhere from 5000 or so up to 30,000 and growing. I know of two lots with combined totals of 60,000 head on feed beetween them that do not kill calves in AB.
A feedlot in SK can outbid the AB feedlot for SK calves. They don't have trucking to AB for feed or calves. It is not that it is overbuilt, but who has the advantage in the overbuilt stage.

[grassfarmer]

So how will these guys make out having to truck everything to the US for slaughter given the MCOOL restrictions on which plants/companies will buy/handle Cdn cattle?