George Groeneveld Is Not An Honest Man

[farmers_son]

I got my AFRP II cheque. For a fraction of what was promised. I was cheated by our beloved Ag Minister.

I did what I was supposed to and met all the obligations associated with this payment. George Groenveld did not feel the same need to keep his side of the bargain.

As far as I am concerned I had a deal with George Groeneveld and he broke that deal. I should not be surprised, this is the same Minister that clearly said the AFRP money would not be tied to CAIS then it was.

Maybe I should have seen it coming but a deal is a deal and George owes me money. I age verified my calves, I did the Premise ID thing. I held my nose and signed the forms because I needed the money. I was clearly told how much money I should expect for doing that, down to the dollar. When the cheque comes the Governemnt has cheated me out of more than half that amount.

If there ever was a real case for a class action suit this would be it. George Groeneveld has lied and cheated Alberta producers out of millions of dollars and should be held accountable.

[kato]

Sadly, this is not a surprised.

Over the past years, just think about how many government press releases were put out boasting about how many millions of dollars in assistance they were going to give out to help not just cattle producers, but all kinds of people. Then talk to those same recipients and see just what they got.

Lots of times it was nothing. Nada. Not one cent. And if they did get something it was usually a fraction of what the politicians told the public they were spending.

It was NEVER what they said it would be, and it was always less. It sure wasn't ever more! Governments have used these announcements as PR forever, and led the people to believe we were all getting rich off the public purse, when in reality it was just a big show.

And this sounds like just another show. Cattle producers in Alberta should probably go to the public and reassure them that their money has not been spent like they were told it was. That's the part that ticks me off. The impression that the money was spent, when it really wasn't.

On the other hand, in Manitoba we don't get promises. We just get regulations. We know where our names are, and it's scribbled somewhere on the back of the priority list.

[smcgrath76]

FS - I am sure GG will argue that you got your money. The remainder was just in the form of an in kind omniscient contribution called ALMS. Still waiting here. We sent our forms in via fax the very first day we got them (before the website was even running).
First week of January my A#$.
We could have used the cash, but thankfully we did not budget to recieve anything.

[wilagro]

Letting the AB government run your business by legislation or regulation will KILL the industry. The corporate interests will win out before YOU will. Time for a NEW government...Albertans are suckers for keeping these people in power for over three decades. Totally asinine.

[grassfarmer]

Farmers_son says "As far as I am concerned I had a deal with George Groeneveld and he broke that deal."
Really? you had a deal? I thought you and your ABP buddies spend most of last year opposing the introduction of the program? The way you were all talking you weren't going to comply and had said screw the money. How times change, now you were owed this money and knew the exact dollar amount? come on who is not an honest man now?
Maybe the cheques to sitting ABP delegates were all reduced because you have been such a pain in the ass to deal with??

[per]

The way the ABP supporters including you fs came out and said there was no way they would comply, we can only assume that there would have been enough money in the fund for the rest if you hadn't caved. Maybe the Minister and his staff weren't counting on you all caving. We all knew the amount to be distributed, just not how many to divide it by. I heard that many times by the deputy minister. More compliance than expected I suppose.

[smcgrath76]

I think we are actually going to see some stress on the feedlots this fall. A lot of SK/MB calves will get fed at home. There are fewer regulations, lots of feed and cash advances available through the Canola Growers. I think this will certainly move feedlotting next door. SK fed cattle tend to die in the US rather than Canada, so the pressure may be on the packers to keep volume up as well. Provincial regulations that aren't in step with the other provinces can often have unintended side effects.

[grassfarmer]

I doubt the feedlot sector will move "next door". Too much investment here already - economics are unlikely to see a host of new lots put up in SK, IMHO. Bottom line this potential prosperity in SK/MB is built on what? being the lowest cost supplier to the US market - how profitable has that been for any of us in recent years? Maybe the feedlots here are smarter spending $5 a head complying with regulations and looking to a better market through ALMS?

[farmers_son]

Grassfarmer: I think your line of argument is out of line. It would be far too easy for me to respond to any point you make as being from your NFU/RCALF buddies. That would take no thought or effort for me to do that and I respectfully suggest your response takes even less.

As for the “way I was talking” I encouraged people in these threads to sign up and take the money. I regret those words because people had genuine concerns about what they were being asked to sign. In hindsight the smart people were the ones that stuck to their guns and did not sign or participate in Georges schemes to take over our cattle industry. Clearly I was told to expect a cheque the same size as the first AFRP cheque. I was also told that those cheques would not be part of CAIS. I was clearly lied to. There was a time when a Ministers word was law, this Ministers word is not worth anything.

Grassfarmer, I do understand and appreciate the NFU supports George Groeneveld as Ag Minister and that his left wing mandatory government interventionist policies are closely aligned with NFU thought. I would point out whether you are a socialist or not I think any government figure has to have credibility and George Groeneveld has entirely lost his credibility. Producers are going to remember the time George promised them government money in order to coerce producers to participate in a government scheme. The next time producers will tell George to take a hike.

As for ALMS is just an excuse for the government to do nothing in the face of dramatically declining cow numbers. Be honest... ALMS has not done a darn thing. Not one new thing except rip off ideas and initiatives that were already being done by others then ALMS takes the credit. If we keep losing cows at the rate we have seen within a year we will not have enough cattle to export to the U.S. or anywhere else for that matter.

George Groeneveld was director of the Alberta Wheat Pool and presided over the demise of that proud institution. Make no mistake about it, if George stays on as Ag Minister he will preside over the loss of one of Canada's largest export commodities. What is George going to have to lie about then?

[perfecho]

Actually, FS, ALMS has done something....it has given the packers a better product for marketing overseas. It has/will give packers a better margin......unfortunately this will not be passed on.
I still have a hard time with the fact that "our" overseas customers have more information available to them in purchasing Canadian beef, than we do here in our own market. This, in my mind, shows who is in charge of our industry and who the changes were made to benefit.

[kato]

A question from someone out of the loop... How is it tied to CAIS?

Could it be that it's been diluted in an effort to "level" the field between provinces? Is it an effort aimed at lowering help to you so they don't have to increase it for the rest of us?

Which makes it even worse.

[BFW]

Farmers Son this has to be the biggest load of garbage you have have tried to dump on us yet. This is clearly an effort on your part to dicredit Minister Groeneveld in his efforts to help the beef industry in this province much to the displeasure of your cronies at ABP. Anyone who has been even remotely close to the AFRP process (and your involvement at ABP would give you this) knows that the second portion of the AFRP payment was based on how much was paid out in the first installment. Clearly they underestimated the amount that would be paid out in the first payment. Minister Groeneveld should be commended not dumped on. He has shown great leadership and fortitude from the start and his motivation is to help find a new direction for the beef industry in Alberta not to reduce the cowherd. Reduction of the cowherd by some 30% is a stated ABP option for saving the industry that you may like to explain. The train is leaving the station FS,you had better quickly decide if you want to get on.

[grassfarmer]

From "Roping the Web" November 2008.

"Question 23. How much will my second instalment be?
AFRP II was based on information from the AgriStability program. There have been additional eligible producers come forward and register for AFRP II, who were not part of AgriStability.

To date, we have paid out almost $190 million; therefore $110 million remains available for the second instalment. It is impossible at this time to determine the amount these producers will receive as their second instalment, or the number of eligible producers who will meet the requirements."

Seemed clear enough to me - no dollar sum quoted, no promises that couldn't be met. I never get excited about Government program payments, you take what comes and bank it but I wouldn't spend it before I got it.

[smcgrath76]

GF - the lots are being built, and lots of them. I think the AB lots will have to bid pretty dearly to get cattle out of SK this fall.
The cash advances that are available in AB are tied to CAIS. They don't hold the cattle as collateral, they hold your CAIS account as collateral.
I think we need to be cautious about how secure we are in our feeding/slaughtering industry in Canada and in AB.

[farmers_son]

BFW: Maybe you would care to share with readers here just how much you got from AFRP. Maybe if I, as a cow calf operator, got even 1% or 1/10 of 1% of what you received as a feedlot operator I would be as supportive of George as you are.

And yes the second cheque was based on the first cheque, in fact it was to be the same amount as the first cheque and separate from CAIS; at least that is what I heard George say out loud and in person. Straight from the liars mouth so to speak. I agree that the government did let slip in the final days before the application deadline that the payment might be reduced but a lot of producers filed before all that on good faith that the Minister would keep his word. It is fair to say that any communications that the payment that was contigent upon age verifying, premise ID and signing the forms might be less than the first cheque was separate from the application package and after the fact for many producers. At no time did the government ever indicate that the second cheque would be reduced to the extent it was even though that would have been known certainly before the deadline date. George was telling two stories and that is fact. George Groeneveld is not an honest man, he says one thing and does another. If producers had known how small the second cheque was going to be they would not ever have been sucked into Georges lies.

And most producers realize that ALMA is a big lie too. A lie that the government is trying to help the cattle industry when the only purpose is to regulate the average sized cow calf producer out of business while transfering wealth from the cow calf guy to the packers.