Class action payment template

[rkaiser]

So ---- how would all of you thinkers like this thing to be set up?

I have been intrigued from day one with the individual claim of suffering. I say cap the per head payment and put together a proposal that fits individual producers and their own personal loss on more than a per animal monetary standard.

Every petty little program the feds have come up with has been based on numbers of cattle. No argument that the big boys take the big risk, but how many wives and children do each of these big boys feed and clothe? Yes they have employees, but have they shared their subsidy cheques with these folks?

I feel that the groundswell of interest from the average producer would really swell if the payout template did not give Lakeside farms a lions share of the class action money.

I like the Ontario approach that speaks of a per producer payment and then a per head figure.

Let's say that every producer who was earning the majority of his or her income from raising cattle receive 100 or 200K and then have a cap on the second figure which would be about the number of animals that the producer owned in 2003.

How about it folks. It's our class action --- let's help build the payout document.

[grassfarmer]

Not really specific to this case Randy but in Europe back in the day they decided at one point to target subsidy based on a "per labor unit" basis and I think that was a good idea. It keeps people in the countryside and healthy rural communities.

[kato]

The claim starts with this..........

"a) General damages for each of $100,000.00, for pain suffering and loss of enjoyment of life."

This is where it should start to be disbursed, and if there is any left over, then a per head amount would be appropriate. An amount recieved for pain and suffering should also not be relevant to any other farm income programs, because from my uneducated view, farm income programs are not designed to cover pain and suffering, only flat out monetary losses. Just my opinion, so I don't know how much it cuts the mustard in the legal world. ;-)

There is no way to measure the level of suffering brought on by the whole debacle by just counting the cattle. It goes way farther than that. I don't see why a young family with children and lots of debt should be considered to have suffered less than a large corporate feedlot.

There are people who only had small herds of cattle who lost their farms over this. Some lost their families due to the stress of the financial struggle. I know of one family who lost their father and husband due to suicide. Are they any less important because they were small? How can you compare?

IMHO, the first clause should be fulfilled before any other monies are disbursed. That would be my priority, and I wouldn't feel bad because my neighbour, who only had 30 cows, got as much as me.

We were all sitting around the kitchen table that May day with the same sick feeling in our stomachs, and the same panicked feelings about our futures. We all had the same sleepless nights, and frantic scramble to keep it all together.

And we did not all make it through, either.

[farmers_son]

This seems to be to be a classic case of counting your chickens before they are hatched.

However if money is to be paid the more likely scenario (not the one I prefer) is any payment that goes to producers will be on a per head basis and it will all go the feedlots and packers like all the other money has. Oh... I forgot it trickled down (BS it did!).

I checked back and I never received hardly BSE any money for cow calf even though billions were paid in compensation. The bulk of those payments and I mean hundreds of millions maybe even well over a billion of that money (if you can believe the provinces claim that they wrote cheques for $2.5 billion) went to only 40 feedlots (all of them in Alberta) and one of those feedlots even owned a packing plant. The owners of that particular feedlot/packing plant took the support money on the feedlot side plus hosed our cow calf operators with irresponsible and manipulated low live cattle prices. They took irresponsible and reckless profits then folded up and crawled back into their hole in the U.S.

I guess is obvious I have neither forgiven nor forgotten. Hard to forget... I still have the debt to keep reminding me. Lots of other producers have debt that resulted from that time period and that debt is a ticking time bomb that threatens to destroy a lot of cow calf producers given the present credit crisis and economic meltdown.

If I understand correctly, in the event there is a successful class action award previous money paid out by the federal government will be deducted from any potential settlement. The feds could easily argue that they have already paid us either though ad hoc payments or through existing programs like CAIS. Which leaves no one with any money but dealing with the rather uncomfortable aftertaste of our own courts ruling our Canadian government was negligent in preventing BSE.

Should every producer get the same amount? Even a producer who had 6 cows out back? This example shows the importance of caps on payments to producers. If there is no cap all the money goes to a handful of mega producers and the average guy like you and me is left holding the bag. As far as I am concerned those 40 big feedlots have already been paid way, way too much. They do not need or deserve any more. Not one cent more to the big feedlots and packer controlled cattle. There needs to be cap on how much goes to one operation so the money can go to those that really need it. My opinion only.

[kato]

Not so much counting chickens, more like thinking ahead to make sure that if things work out, they work out fairly. This is the time to have this discussion, not after a potential payout is announced.

I agree on the cap also. There is no need to send more money to the same places the big bucks went before. And if I had to chose between sharing with some guy who had a handful of cattle, and sharing with a corporation who has done nothing but profit from our troubles, there's no choice to be made.

There is no fair way to calculate a payment based on previously received payments. How on earth they would be able to calculate where money has gone already is beyond me. Would it be aid that was received as a group? Or as individuals? If it is as a group in general, then that's just rubbing salt in the wound, and would be about the greatest insult to small producers possible. If they were to take that approach, then they do not deserve to call themselves the Government of Canada.

A lump sum, with a cap, per person is the most logical solution.

[BFW]

Should we assume then that my kids who where in 4H should receive this lump sum payment as well. This line of thinking is not logical at all. FS, we allow those same "40 big feedlots" to pay the lions share of our checkoff and give them only 40 votes in return. Face it government payments are seldom fair nor is life in general.

[grassfarmer]

A can of worms opened for sure. "Big versus small" who deserves most? Is there a lower limit to what constitutes a producer? someone with 10 cows? 6 cows? What about the oilfield workers with 30 cows or 100 cows as a sideline? what about the doctors and dentists who owned cattle in a custom feedlot?
Also this is speculatively based on people who were producers with cattle in 2003. Tough on new entrants from that point on but a nice retirement gift for those who have quit. Is that right?
I personally belief in one man one check. If a couple run cows, they form the substantial part of that families income they get the $100k. In a feedlot with owner and 10 staff they get 11x the $100k.
If this payment were to happen it seems sure to cause further division between sectors and producers and that is not good. Personally I don't think this is good for the Canadian taxpayer - remember that is who is footing the bill - not the Government as they have no funds per se. The consumers that supported beef producers by increasing consumption when we needed it get asked to fork out money to help us at a time they are financially strapped due to the recession. Perhaps if the Government lose this case and trigger a pay out they could counter sue the large packers who really caused the financial difficulties for producers - not that I would support.

[haveapulse]

Figure if any of you cow boys ever went to the grocery store and set your eye on the price of beef, then the price of chicken or turkey, you would sell them cows and buy some poultry.

And while you decide on which cut to bring home for dinner, you can choke on the fact that a lb of chicken or turkey is more than many cuts of beef, or pork.

Then you think of the conversion and the fact that the lb of beef is about 36th months from the egg to the plate, and a chicken is 3 to 4 months.. well let me tell you, you don't wanna meet your local politician when your shopping for chicken if you are a beef fellow, comparing the price of meat on that counter.

But if he were to stop by (your MP that is) you can discuss the lump payment and ask him if the regulated price of supply managed commodities that went up when the price of grain went up it it went down when feed went down..

Ah shucks but who notices these details anyway, the way we manage policy in this country.

[Reitnorf]

Where have I been? actual payment? I'll believe it when I see it. I'm sure we'll get screwed over somehow.I'm pretty much toast anyhow,but a bit of cash to pay local bills would be sweet.any guess on a time frame guys?

[kato]

None of us will believe it until we see it.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't give up on it. Stranger things have happened, and for the past five years almost everything that has happened was something we all thought impossible.

Who would have ever believed the news would be carrying stories about the failures on Wall Street. Banks with earnings in the billions, going broke? General Motors and Chrysler on the rocks? The U.S. government taking over banks, when in the past they refused to even regulate them let alone be shareholders?

We live in some strange times, and just about anything is possible.

Besides, it's kind of nice to be speculating over possible compensation for our troubles instead of speculating over what disaster is lurking around the corner to hit us next. Much less stressful, and I for one have had enough stress to do me for a lifetime.