AFSC and AFRP II

[farmers_son]

In my opinion, it is not an AFSC thing. It is an ALMA thing.

These two payments were part of the ALMStrategy and Gorgeous George Groeneveld's vision on how to control not only Alberta cattle producers but the entire Canadian cattle industry.

No one should be surprised if it has all turned out to be a gong show. In fact the problems with the tiny second AFRP II cheque pales in comparison to the total cost of ALMA. Millions and millions of dollars (I would hazard a guess over $100 million) have been diverted into the Gorgeous George producer control fund (aka ALMA and ALMS) and absolutely nothing has come out. If that money had gone directly to cow calf producers we would at least have something in our pockets instead of mandatory this and compulsory that and little else to show for it.

We were supposed to have results by now. We were supposed to have our money by now too.

ALMS and ALMA has really served as an excuse to do nothing while the industry continues to lose producers and cows. ALMA has been a total flop.

Now if cattle producers owned drilling rigs we would be getting some attention. Maybe what we need is more PRECISION in the cattle industry.

[smcgrath76]

I thought AFSC held your CAIS account as security against the APP program loans?
As for ALMA, well that is best left unsaid. Something about money for nothing or is that nothing for the money?
I suppose ALMA singlehandedly resulted in the dropping $ which is masking a tremendous drop in the demand and actual price for cattle.
We still are not good at adding VALUE.

[grassfarmer]

No Farmers_son my problems have not been an ALMA thing they have been an AFSC thing. That outfit were useless before ALMA was ever conceived. It can only weaken ALMA to have them involved with it. Unlike you I am not complaining about the size of a second payment, merely that AFSC have screwed up again so that I risk not getting paid at all.

Sean,
Yeah, I think technically AFSC hold your CAIS account as security - but you can't get blood out of a stone! If we get zero CAIS payments year after year it'll take them a while to collect!
Seriously though the APP is an excellent program - if you use it sensibly. Rather like a credit card if used well it is an asset rather than a liability. I have no intention of defaulting and am enjoying having access to interest free loans that don't need repaid for anything from 18-30 months.

[farmers_son]

Well the fact remains that the AFRP II cheque was part and parcel of the ALMS announcement. And it is not AFSCs fault that the Government and ALMA do not even seem to know how many animals there are in the province or else ALMA cannot run a calculator. AFSC was merely stuffing envelopes.

Smcgrath76: I certainly agree with you when you say ALMA has done nothing and a huge amount of money has been funneled into that agency. Nothing for the money. There are concerns about conflict of interest within the ALMA board which is made up elitist self serving appointees. Not to mention internal dissent within the ALMA board resulting in some high profile firings.

We are adding value...we are just not getting paid for it. Part of the reason for that is too much mandatory, not enough common sense. Too much elite board, not enough grass roots producer. Too many appointees, not enough producer direction with ALMA.

Check out:
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$Department/deptdocs.nsf/all/com12203/$FILE/AB_Livestock_Strategy_Public_Doc_June_9_2008_FINAL .pdf

In that document, the 2008-2013 Implementation Plan it clearly says the AFRP II payment was to be decoupled, meaning decoupled from CAIS but tied to compliance with ALMS. The government tends to cleanse their web sites of embarrassing past remarks that highlight their lies and incompetence but they missed that one.

The ALMS vision can be read at:
http://alberta.ca/acn/200806/236915962D304-B91F-45D9-1E2802D0075952C0.html

The only part of the ALMS vision that has been achieved is the mandatory part that producers have to bow to. Not one other thing has been done and it is nearly a year. And in that year Alberta has lost how many cows and how many producers. I bet ALMA is not going to tell us those numbers. Not that they would even care.

[grassfarmer]

Farmers_son, you say "AFSC was merely stuffing envelopes." - indeed, and even that job seems beyond their limited capabilities. You can put any kind of spin you like on it serve your own ends but my problems were caused by AFSC not ALMA/ALMS.

It's easy to blame ALMA for everything but is there any truth in that?

You blame ALMA for lack of progress in a year but are happy to be part of an organization that spent the first 6 months fighting ALMA - how much more could have been achieved without the silly counter campaign by ABP?

You blame ALMA for losing cows and producers but isn't it the case that there was also a huge sell off of cows/reduction of producers the previous fall/winter?

It's easy to blame ALMA but what were the alternatives? You believe the ABP/CCA policies are correct - free and open trade with primarily the US, No government intervention - well how was that working for producers pre-ALMA? Not too well if I recall afterall these were your dream scenarios of marketing options but they were also what caused the big sell off of cows in the fall of 07. It seems you don't like to acknowledge the facts here - the model we had was broken and not working yet it continued to be the only option in your mind.

Last fall the NFU came out with a groundbreaking analysis of the current industry problems which easily explained why your chosen solutions were not, and could not, result in increased returns to producers. You said it was BS and the author was a BSer if I recall correctly.

Lets face it - for the last few years we were operating in a vacuum devoid of leadership or any new ideas emminating from CCA/ABP. ALMA is an attempt to change the status quo - time will tell whether it bears fruit, I for one am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt. Since January VJV, Ponoka have sold a lot of cattle through their "Canada Gold" sales so hopefully these cattle earned a premium for the sellers and will continue to do so as they work their way though the production chain. Canada Gold is the type of program that ALMA seeks to encourage so good luck to all involved.
You may not like ALMA farmers_son but I have yet to see the CCA/ABP solutions that are any better.

[smcgrath76]

I hope for some true Value adding, but I don't see it yet. Until the producer takes ownership in the chain, then the commodity race to the bottom is inevitable. Unfortunately we may be blinded to what is really occuring in terms of beef demand and markets due to our rapidly falling dollar.

[kato]

If anyone has sent a fax that "didn't arrive", fear not! I also faxed such a paper to the competent people in the CAIS program once, which they said they didn't receive.

Go back over the phone bill. For almost all of us it will be long distance, and a call to their number will show up on your bill. You make a copy, circle the number in big bright yellow highlighter, and send it to them. You have proof that you faxed it.

It worked for me.

[grassfarmer]

That's a great tip Kato! - unfortunately I mailed mine ( You don't have any similar tips for that do you?

[coppertop]

Have been away from the site for quite awhile, nice to see the familiar names still here. I have the same issue regarding payment 2. I received a letter indicating that I would not be getting a second payment because I did not premises ID. I checked through my file, and found the receipt from the Post Office when I sent in the Premises ID forms the first business day of January 09. I had kept a copy for myself, so called the AFSC office and spoke to a lady there. She said I needed to call the ALMS office and get them to fax me the copy of my Premises ID, which I did.
I then called AFSC back and was told that I had to fax the papers to them and then re-Age Verify my calves.
I told her she was NUTS, that there was no damn way I needed to re-age verify my calves because they had mislaid my Premises ID papers.
She called me back in five minutes and said I was correct, that faxing her the papers was all that was necessary.
That was a month ago and I am still waiting for my Payment 2 !!!!
And George was in the Legislature during Question Period last week telling the assembly just how wonderful this new meat strategy is, and how it is helping the cattle producers.
I think it is going to be responsible for many producers taking up drinking if nothing else !!!!!