Bill 43

[grassfarmer]

Come on farmers_son that's all rather melodramatic. "The entire livestock sector in this province were gutted by Bill 43" How can it be such a terrible thing when you allow producers to democratically choose which organisation they wish to have representing them?
"The same government that is putting that farmer who shot the thief who was stealing his quad through the court system is the one and same government that is stealing our ability to have and fund our own livestock organizations." Please explain how it is stealing our ability to have and fund our own livestock organisations?
We can have them tomorrow just the same as we had yesterday - nothing has changed there. If the ABP is doing everything right as you claim it is and all the producers support it what are you worrying about? If what you believe is actually true ABP won't lose a cent of it's funding. The Government won't be stealing anything from you. If producers are disgruntled with ABP's performance they might direct their dollars elsewhere. This change leaves all the onus on the producer - allows them a more democratic choice and the Government isn't taking away money or choice from anyone.
I suspect why you are really concerned is because you know the chickens have come home to roost and many producers will redirect their levy away from ABP.
If this were somehow to signal the end of ABP (which I really don't expect to happen) you have just provided the perfect epitaph:
"Most of us would like the opportunity to vote through a plebiscite and however the vote would go would be fine."
Oh, the irony.... when the very same request was made in recent years by producers of ABP regarding the levy only for it to fall on deaf ears. Poetic justice!

[farmers_son]

I think you are missing the point. It is not about ABP. Alberta Pork and Alberta Lamb were hit too. The three producer groups that represent livestock and fall within the greedy grasp of ALMA. Who is going to stand up to ALMA now? Who is going to tell the government that mandatory is not the way to go? The NFU? I think not.

[per]

Come on f_s, fear mongering at its best. I grow lots of barley, never once have I given a thought to having my checkoff refunded. They are doing a good job and are responsive to the needs of the barley growers. In fact only about 7% do ask for a refund and it has been steady for the last 10 or so years. That is how it will be for the pork, lamb, beef and potato guys. The core support will be steady and consistent. The only real difference will be the actual # of core supporters and that each organization will have to be responsive to all of the members on an ongoing basis. True grass roots bottom up democracy. Yearly referendum. Enduring accountability. I can't imagine how you can preach democracy and then reject moving the organization to true democracy.

[BFW]

Yes FS I will have to agree with you that you certainly have never been a proponent of the BIG feedlots and your comments on Rutherford the other day certainly spell that out very clearly. I find it interesting also that ABP has taken up with the provincial Liberal party to promote this fight of big vs small. This is about ensuring the viabiltiy of the cattle and beef industry in this province, not about ABP style democracy and ABP is not the industry. There is huge opportunity for us all here to do better here. I predict there will be less division amongst the various sectors going forward and more money available to advance our issues and a better return on that money invested. I don't understand the ABP campaign of fearmongering and think that they do it at their peril. This change to the legislation is long overdue, lets seize the opportunity.

[farmers_son]

I think the real point is the undemocratic and heavy handed approach by the government when they moved ahead with this legislation instead of allowing a plebiscite vote where the producers could decide for themselves.

I have a pretty good idea how, if the regular contributors to Agri-ville were the only ones to vote, which way the vote would go. However unless a Province wide vote was held the producers will never get to say.

I think there is a clear reason for that and that reason is the Province wants Alberta Beef Producers, Alberta Pork and Alberta Lamb out of the way so that there is no effective opposition to the mandatory aspects of ALMA that we are going to see next year.

Refundable check-off does not give you more choice – it allows money to vote instead of people.

There is a reason why the Government went with Legislation instead of allowing producers a plebiscite. When producers understand what is at stake and what the issues are they would vote in favour of the present checkoff structure and these three livestock organizations would be able to offer opposition to ALMA.

It is about producers being able to stand up to ALMA or being totally dominated by ALMA.

[BFW]

This isn't about democracy. This is purely about the business of raising, feeding,etc in Alberta. Why are we afraid of ALMA. Why then is their no worry about MAPA ( Marketing of Agricultural Products Act) which actually allows all these boards and commissions to exist. This is a refundable checkoff FS, the right to collect it has not been removed. I guess if it appears heavy handed ( and i disagree) its because we have as an industry been unable to solve this on our own.

[vagabonddreamer]

this is a very interesting socio/demographic discussion...much like the CWB debate on the commodity side of the board...

it has long been held that the propensity of those "against" a particular issue, to formulate into cohesive groups...is much larger than "supporters" to do the same...supporters of an issue dont really get their backs up until their position is threatened...

so although one reading this board for the first time might think all prairie farmers are against the CWB...or all beef producers are against ABP...that may not indeed be the case given a "forced turn out and vote" situation...this discussion board like many others has become a place to roil and vent over an issue...lots of good discussion as well...but i dont think agriville is necessarily a good example of the cross section of the population...vs

[per]

You are correct vg that Agriville is not a true cross section on any issue but I have over the last year been polling fellow ranchers and there is a decided advantage to choice where the check-off is concerned. Still not scientific but most folks I know wouldn't mind a discussion to change my mind if they could so I expect they were honest responses. This won't decimate the ABP, it will change it. Although I have fought to have choice, I most likely will leave my check-off with them as most others will too. It does however provide leverage for when they loose their way.

[farmers_son]

The ones who will have the leverage with a refundable check off are the big feedlots. All of whom have no problem with the mandatory aspects of ALMA because it is the cow calf producer who has to jump through those hoops. Bill 43 takes ABP away from the cow calf producer and hands it to the big feedlots... lock, stock and barrel.

Refundable check-off does not give you more choice – it allows money to vote instead of people. And the feedlots are the ones who would control the most check off. Lets not forget they would be voting with dollars they deducted from the value of your weaned calf. The big feedlots would be controlling your organization with your money and the cow calf producer could go jump in the lake.

However the real issue is the government, through Bill 43, is not allowing producers to decide this for themselves through a plebiscite vote. This debate, the pros and cons of a refundable check off is a debate that needed to happen in the context of a plebiscite vote. If there were to be a plebiscite vote and given there is more cow calf producers than feedlot operators there is a high probability this government and their the big feedlot friends may not get their way.

I think producers can connect the dots for themselves. And those dots show a government that is trying to ram ALMA down the throats of Alberta's livestock sector, not only the cow calf producers but pork and lambs too. Bill 43 is clearly an attempt to get rid of the main opposition to ALMA with its socialist mandatory undemocratic control of this provinces livestock industry and its primary producers.

[Sawbones]

FS..ABP is not democratic. If it were so then resolutions that were passed at the general meeting should be acted upon and not changed at the discretion of a few on the board. If they were acting for the industry and not merely puppets for the packers, they would not be lobbying the federal government to have the $50 million spent on SRM removal costs instead of supporting producer packing initiatives. I'm a cow/calf producer and I welcome the choice.