Bill 43

[farmers_son]

I understand you feel that way.

However I feel differently and I would like to have a choice myself. I could exercise that choice if the Province would allow a plebiscite on the issue.

As it is the Government is not going to allow me a say or any chance to vote in a plebiscite to determine the future of the only organization that would have had the resources needed to stand up to ALMA and the Government. Not to mention the only organization that could have defended our industry against a countervail challenge.

I think the pork and lamb people would like to have the same opportunity to make a choice through a plebiscite vote.

[grassfarmer]

"This debate, the pros and cons of a refundable check off is a debate that needed to happen in the context of a plebiscite vote."

Absolutely Farmers_son, too bad ABP didn't realise that sooner when producers were calling for just just such a debate/plebiscite. You can blame Government, ALMA and the feedlots all you want but this decision was ultimately brought about by the ABPs own policy off arrogantly ignoring the wishes of it's members. You reap what you sow.
You never did answer my question on when ABP changed their policy and decided a plebiscite was needed - care to share?

[Sawbones]

There actually will be a plebisicite..it will be the number of producers that leave their funds with ABP. If as you claim, ABP has been doing a good job, then they have nothing to fear. If on the other hand, producers feel there is a better way to invest their dollars, they will have the choice of making that happen.

[farmers_son]

It is like this.

Prior to Bill 43 ABP represented the entire cattle industry. Everyone paid their three bucks a head check off. Everyone paid their fair share. There were no free riders or people not pulling their load. ABP was a democratic organization where every producer could vote for delegates who then voted on how their checks off dollars were spent.

The structure of ABP was one producer one vote.

In addition to voting for delegates producers could ask for a plebiscite on the check off and that happened at least once. I voted in that plebiscite.

What Bill 43 does is dramatically change how ABP functions. Instead of one producer one vote control of the organization will be determined by check off dollars. The more check off you pay the more influence you will have in the direction of the organization. The problem with that, in this province, is that 40 mega feedlots pay about $5 million in check off or more than 1/3 of the budget. Those forty feedlots will then effectively control all the beef promotion, all livestock and forage research, all the policy direction for ABP. Those forty feedlots will determine whether or not we defend our industry against a countervail challenge, national policy through CCA, even the policies and direction of the Cow Calf committee as no doubt those 40 feedlots will control at least the makeup of the Board of Directors if not who is actually a Director. Those forty feedlots will determine policies regarding export and import of feeders. Those forty feedlots will set ABP policies regarding lobbyingg government on what mandatory requirements you as a cow calf producer have to meet and where any future program payments should be paid. You can pretty much guess what the feedlots will decide there.

And those forty feedlots will be doing that with check off dollars that they deducted from what was paid for your weaned or backgrounded calf. Those forty feedlots will be controlling your cattle organization with what really is your money that they held back from you and those 40 feedlots will insist on changing the direction of ABP so that it is in their best interest. Or else the feedlots will pull their check off.

No longer will everyone be paying their fair share. No longer will everyone be contributing. No longer will ABP be democratic and one producer one vote.

Bill 43 amounts to a dramatic change; it will not be business as usual. This is about who controls ABP, Alberta's 20,000 to 30,000 or so cow calf producers or 40 feedlots. This is a change that cow calf producers did not approve through a plebiscite vote. It will not matter the number of producers who leave their funds with ABP, all that will matter is how much check off an individual or feedlot controls. As a cow calf producer, my vote helped determine the direction of ABP. Now my vote will count for nothing and my check off is not enough to influence any direction that ABP might take.

Bottom line, the Government has handed control of ABP to forty feedlots who will then define ABP’s fate and future direction. Why the Stelmach Government did this without a plebiscite is a very interesting question and speaks volumes to how this government views the average sized cow calf operator and democracy in general.

[farmers_son]

Something I think would be well worth checking out is the Alberta Beef Producers Plan Regulations at:

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?page=2003_336.cfm&leg_type=Regs&isbncln=97 80779733743

Note the word "vote" is used 68 times.

Maybe producers will understand just how much control they individually had over ABP through their individual vote and how much the Government of the Province of Alberta has taken away from them by changing control of ABP from one producer one vote to a situation where ABP will be controlled by whoever pays the most checkoff dollars, in this case the 40 mega feedlots.

We should be able to VOTE on the future of the checkoff through a plebiscite. I am frankly finding it very uneasy living in a totalitarian province where dictator Stelmach makes us dance like puppets on a string. This is clearly something producers should be allowed to vote on.

[grassfarmer]

Maybe the sooner the ABP is gone the better? - if all you can they can do is spew hatred and create division with other sectors of our beef industry. Funny enough that was what ABP were originally accusing the Beef Industry Alliance of.
How quickly things change...speaking of which you never did tell us when ABP changed their mind on wanting a plebiscite farmers_son. Shouldn't be a difficult question to answer or is it like Al Gore's epic - "an inconvenient truth"?

[BFW]

Farmers Son I cannot believe some of the statements you are making here. In fact if your views are indicative of the average board member, delegate, or cow calf producer then the ABP is indeed in serious doodoo. Your statement that "these forty feedlots forty feedlots will have control over your organization with what amounts to your money" is totaly assinine and clearly you are just trying to inflame a sensitive issue. The last time i looked i am certain that the checkoff was deducted off MY CHEQUE at the packing plant which makes that MY MONEY. It is still being collected for the betterment of the entire industry. I guess by your comments then that you think that it is right for these 40 mega feedlots to to pay checkoff in what amounts to a subsidy of the checkoff pool for the rest of the beef industry. If you are afraid of these feedlots taking the money and seizing control it seems a simple solution might be to stop collecting the checkoff altogher from slaughter cattle and attach the checkoff solely to the cow or the calf. I am sure that might be an agreeable compromise for everyone. Force the feeder organizations to fund themselves. Oh just a minute....., they already to on a VOLUNTARY basis.

[farmers_son]

If we had a plebiscite vote these issues could be discussed and everyone could make their views known. Unfortunately the Government is not allowing producers to decide this issue for themselves through a democratic vote and instead are mandating a solution just like they mandated age verification, premise ID and coming up next mandatoryvaccination records, movements, weaning and so on.

The feedlot operators I know are very smart people and run good operations. They understand the influence and power ABP had and some of them (not all by any means) either want that power for themselves or else they will not pay the check off which does amount to a lot of money for those 40 biggest feedlots. Either way they win.

And if we had a plebiscite vote and if the feedlots could convince Alberta’s producers that we should have a refundable checkoff so the 40 biggest feedlots could then control the industry then that is democracy in action. The problem is we are not being allowed to decide this issue for ourselves. That is not democracy in action and whether you can call that dictatorial or undemocratic I call it just plain wrong.

The feedlots are margin operators. What ever money the big feedlots can deduct from what they pay for our feeders is indeed theirs. And whatever money those 40 feedlot operators can convince government to hand over to the feedlot sector is theirs too.

The feedlots cannot argue both sides of the fence. They cannot say that the billions of subsidy dollars they received trickled down to the cow calf operator yet the checkoff they pay does not trickle down instead is an expense they bear on their own. I tend to go with BFW on this one. Any money the feedlots receive is theirs and any money they save is theirs and now they want ABP to be theirs too. And the government is going to give it to them.

If we cannot have a plebiscite on this issue then the feedlots win either way and the cow calf producer is left wondering what happened to the only organization that had to the resources to stand up to ALMA and the Province.

Lets have a plebiscite vote and let producers decide for themselves. Why not? I ask Grassfarmer that question… why not have a plebiscite vote?

[grassfarmer]

I'm up for a plebiscite farmers_son, always was - unlike ABP who were dead against one until when? I see you are still avoiding that question. Was it last week?, last month? it's not in any of the ABP BOD minutes posted on the web.
At the same time I'd like to inquire who is funding the advert I heard on the radio this morning complaining about Bill 43 and urging producers to call their MLAs. Is it you Farmers_son? - you and some like minded friends? Or is it general ABP funds? I am a levy payer and I strongly object to MY checkoff money being spent to run a campaign against a decision that I agree with, especially as I campaigned in recent years to instigate a plebiscite only to be turned down at every opportunity by ABP.

[farmers_son]

Check out:

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index.aspx?p=mla_csv

You can download a file with all the contact information for all Alberta MLAs. They can be called and/or faxed toll free using the RITE line 310-0000.

ABP also has a form letter you can download at:
www.albertabeef.org

This an issue producers should decide for themselves through a democratic plebiscite. Make you voices heard or you will not have a voice left.

[BFW]

Interesting the resources the ABP are dedicating to trying to preserve the status quo. I have heard spots on numerous radio stations and seen ads in various papers , the cost of which must be already running in the several hundred thousanf dollar range. Is this our democratically elected leadership acting on behalf of the beef industry or one just trying to preserve or ones just trying to save the ABP? Good use of our dollars..... Democracy ensures you get what you deserve. This is business..

[grassfarmer]

Every dictatorship has it's day - this performance just proves that the minister made a wise decision. The last ditch campaign to save your %@%5 and directors salaries is just the latest in a series of events that will turn producers even more against ABP.
When did ABP decide they backed a plebiscite?
Is it general ABP reserves funding the ad campaign or is it donations from concerned directors producers?
hum hum hum ... still waiting....

[farmers_son]

What could be more democratic than a plebiscite vote on an important issue?

Whether we are talking about mandatory age verification, mandatory premise ID, mandatory vaccination records, mandatory weaning dates or mandatory tracking of livestock movements it is the Stelmach government that is being dictatorial.

Bill 43 was introduced April 28. It got second reading yesterday May 6. Third reading could be as soon as next week. The government is trying to ram Bill 43 down our throats so his provinces livestock based commissions such as ABP cannot offer any opposition to ALMA and its elitist board who wish to control Alberta's cow calf producers, hog producers, lamb producers.

Producers cannot sit on their hands on this one. They need to contact their MLAs, the Premier, newspapers to make their views known that they should have the right to vote through a plebiscite. Time is running out folks. This needs to happen today. Producers need to decide who controls ABP... cow calf or feedlot.

Producers need to decide for themselves if they want a strong organization that can stand up to the Government and ALMA and say Government is not telling us what we have to do.

[per]

What would the ABP look like without the feedlot tax. Different that is for sure. It would still have funding and could use that funding to further the cause of it's new base. Cow calf operations. Do a good job and you will have all the money. Keep up not listening to the grass roots and your fears will come true. Some of us have an ongoing dialog with our MLA's and have discussed this several times. My MLA likes the idea of choice, so do I.

[grassfarmer]

"What could be more democratic than a plebiscite vote on an important issue?"
What indeed? that's why producers were calling for one for the last 3 years only to be denied at every turn by the dictatorial leadership of ABP.
When did the said ABP leadership suddenly decide we needed a plebiscite? seems no-one can provide an answer to this one...