4H calves

[dfarms11]

Here's a question for all you 4H people. What are we doing wrong with our calves. They just don't seem to be growing like others. What is the secret to picking the right calf? Or feeding the calf? Am I supposed to have the calf weened and on feed weeks before weigh in? If its genetics then I will have to start bringing in better ones but it has to be more than that. Our calves only gained between 2 and 2.5 pounds per day. All the big gainers made 3.5-4.0. Are they using implants or what? If anyone here could help me with this dilemma I would greatly appreciate it.

[per]

I'm not likely able to help you but am curious what your feed regiment is.

[kato]

And breeding. It can make a big difference.

Once you know your average gain, which can be quite predictable year from year, you can look at a calf, get a picture in your mind of what he needs to weigh to grade, then work backwards and pick a calf with a fall weight that will fit. It worked for us.

When our boys were in 4H, we had our achievement at the end of June. This meant that a Feb. born calf would be 16 months old on the big day. We were always careful to avoid the bragging rights that came with the biggest calf in the fall, because that meant they were way to big on achievement day. We'd pick a middle of the road calf.

You don't want to have to be holding them back, and you also don't want a kid panicking a month before achievement and overfeeding and making them sick. We had kids in the club who did this, and it's a heart breaker to see a club calf go down on achievement day from grain overload.

[vagabonddreamer]

ahhhhh...dfarms11....the AGE old question...i know in our club...there is always wonderment at the fact that some of the larger cow/calf/feedlot operations...produce steers that are in effect "finished" in a year or slightly less...we have a "weigh-in" day in March or thereabouts...so most of the steers that show up are JUST a year or maybe slightly less...and its AMAZING not only how some of them are almost OVER finished...ie...1350lbs at a YEAR old...(they just coast until July at that point)...but how their FRAME size is essentially that of a fully mature animal...in JUST a year...i can see an animal gaining well on a perday basis...but it is very hard to convince me that the bone structure and frame size can be THAT different among animals...

we have tried different programs over the years...and approaching the finishing process in a "natural" (ie without implants)...manner we have been able to average 3-3.75/lb day growth...

we feed twice a day...the morning feed is grain ONLY...the evening feed is grain and 30% (daily ration) of hay...you CANT let them eat too much hay...(to the point you are pushing internal damage)...unfortunately 4-H isnt about the reality of raising beef for commercial purposes (which is really what it is supposed to emulate)...it is about having the largest animal...there has maybe been a SLIGHT shift over the last couple years towards more commercialy sized finished animals...but the grand champions are ALWAYS one of the largest NOT necessarily the most aptly finished...

just my observations over the years...vs

[grassfarmer]

Hopefully by the time my daughter is big enough to handle a 4H steer they will have evolved to having a "natural or grass-fed class" which would probably entail it being held in the fall. I have no interest in bringing kids up on the industrial model where you are pushing them so hard you get into that risky zone of killing them vs getting the highest gain. What does that teach a kid? to rely on the input pimps with their grain, implants and magic potions.

[vagabonddreamer]

ABSOLUTELY GF...i hope when you get involved with 4-H...you lobby HEAVILY in the direction of natural/grassfed...i spoke with a member of the executive of of our regional 4-H board...wanting to include a "natural" class...she indicated they would not do this as the bigger players would not want to "not enter that natural class"...so its easier to go along in veiled ignorance...than it is too rock the boat...

and you are absolutely correct about grain pimps...AND the fact that 4-H is not fulfilling its mandate in preparing kids for the commercial marketplace...AND i agree on the folly of "pushing" the projects to the detrement of their health...but unless you are prepared to implant its the only way to get close...vs

[dfarms11]

They have been getting free choice hay and then as much barley as they can handle. From whats been said, it sounds like that is totally backwards! It's always worked just fine for me backgrounding my own calves.

[perfecho]

dfarms.....keep on trying!
I lead a small group of 4-H members in our area. We do not use implants and our focus is on overall animal care and handling. I also stress to some of the members that use animals that may not finish in the "target" range, consumers requirements are not the same. Look for the buyer who wants less marbling, or who wants a smaller framed animal, etc. They are out there. Maybe even find your buyer first and raise it according to their needs......(part of our club is marketing)
Anyways I will run down some basics...believe me, I am no expert, but I took my girls to 4-H so I could learn;-) Last year my daughter did take the champion banner with an Gelbvieh/Angus cross.....I believe because he as finished (hard) and she had him looking "full" on show day as well as properly groomed and good on the halter.

We are usually around 210 days of feeding. We had a feedlot fellow out to see how they "do it" and to sum up, "you want to take your animal from 20% grain/80% hay at the beginning and work him up to 80% grain/20% hay to finish" If you get there, make sure to use a buffer, (limestone) with the grain.
For us, we always have free choice hay. (Some people restrict hay if they are pushing hard.) Good hay should gain 2 lbs a day without grain. We start our steers on about 5 lbs of grain, (oats/barley or just barley) and every few days increase this by a lb or so. It is best to feed 2 or more steers in a pen so they compete for feed. We get them up to about 20lbs of grain for 2-3 months and the last 2 months about 25 plus. Remember to use a buffer....it is a lot of grain.
For ease, barley works, but putting in molasses or corn (or both) makes it more interesting for the steer. Minerals, etc should also be included If you find yourself a little behind in performance, corn has some added punch and they like it, so use more corn if "catch up" is the game or to if they are not eating as much as you would like. (Some even “cook” the corn….but hey….this is supposed to be fun,)
We do feed twice a day...and the real jocks would insist on the same time every day. We are a little more laid back here, heck last year when my daughter won, we had gone to once a day feeding. (Sometimes when you are really hungry you tend to overeat...or at least I do)
Hope some of this helps, if you have any questions please e-mail me at perfecho@aol.com with your phone number and we can chat. You can also google “feeding the show steer” or ”feeding the 4-H steer“ and you’ll get lots of info.
The biggest thing is to have fun."Learn to do by doing".(Had to through that one in their;-) Remember, the judge is just one opinion on one day.....how many times do we go in our herd and suddenly see a "new" favorite.
Stay tuned for next month's meeting "picking the right calf!" ;-)

[perfecho]

Long winded guy back again.......we start with a calf around 700 lbs and depending on frame score shoot for the 1350lb market weight with 3% shrink....and the added stress of show day, approx 1400 lbs.

[grassfarmer]

"Good hay should gain 2 lbs a day without grain."
Sorry but I'm not buying that one perfecho. I have never seen hay of a quality that would give you 2lbs of gain without grain. I don't believe it is technically possible for them to take in enough nutrients to do that off hay - volume would be the limiting factor.