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Government Should Not Be Running Agriculture

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    #25
    I am not sure I won't ask for a refund
    on my checkoff, and I am not sure I am
    getting value from ABP. That said, I
    sure do NOT approve of ALMA or the
    moves of the AB Gov of late. I think
    if there is demand for specific product
    attributes (hormone free, age verified,
    etc) then someone needs to pay for it.
    If all producers are forced to do the
    steps outlined in ALMA we have just
    given away a lot of our marketing
    leverage as individual producers. I
    think the population of cattle ranchers
    will decline for sure, I am not sure
    about the cattle population.
    Quite frankly I am not sure anyone is
    really thinking these days. As for a
    plebiscite, nice idea but it is not
    going to happen. I suggested some
    ways/means to implement a refundable
    checkoff at the local policy meeting,
    but I suspect that the structure of ABP
    results in being bogged down in a lot
    of the what ifs/don't offend, rather
    than taking sides and moving forward.

    Comment


      #26
      Don't know how ALMA is forcing you to do anything Sean? Other than tracking animals through identification.

      We could simply stand our ground like the Rcalf boys and challenge any kind of threat to the cowboy way of doing things.

      Yes ALMA is a bold move by the Government, but is it control or an innovative way to get us out of a dysfunctional marketplace. Once forced on us by this joke called BSE. I just wish ALMA would have went one step further and given the packing industry the ability to really use the Canadian Branded card and allow BSE testing for market access.

      Speaking of which --- I guess it's my turn to vent today.. All this blah blah blah from ABP about democracy is getting my goat. How many delegates have been elected to their positions in the last 7 years Rob? And if they were actually elected, how many challengers did they face. ABP is set up to be democratic alright, but it is certainly not functioning that way. Most cattleman and women have simply giving up on challenging the 3 buck checkoff and let these folks at ABP play with it. Once again, there are some good things that ABP does, I admit, but bragging about being the saviour of the cow calf man is certainly not something ABP needs to be doing when most of their efforts for the past 6 years have done little for the rancher and a lot for continued expansion of our multinational corporate controlers from packer to retailer.

      And why is it that this plebiscite issue is now such a big thing. What about when a more major issue to this industry's shit hit the fan a few years back. Where was the call for true democracy back then. Back when Beef Initiative Group Canada went on the road in front of at least ten times the average turnout at the ABP fall meetings and saw overwhelming support for market access BSE testing? Something that had and still has the potential to turn this great country's beef industry around in a heartbeat.

      Now there is a call for a plebiscite to protect some per diem cheques and a great big board room table????

      You want a united voice... A big voice to tell the government what you want? Maybe ABP needs to consider joining the BIA, or maybe they could have stepped up to the plate and jumped on board when George invited them to be part of the B5 group that started the ALMA process.

      Do we need to listen to more Rhetoric and fear from Rob and the ABP, or feel sorry for the position that ABP put themselves in? Or do we listen to the whole story?

      ABP is taking a very typical political fear mongering role right now and is loosing even more credibility in this cowman's mind.

      Comment


        #27
        Randy,
        ALMA is not forcing me to do anything
        that I am not already doing. In fact
        we are several years ahead of ALMA. It
        is going to force others to catch me,
        thus erasing some of the premiums we
        are currently enjoying (self centred, I
        suppose).
        Based on what I understand of ALMA the
        start is mandatory premise id and age
        verification. Next is movement
        tracking and on farm food safety, then
        there is discussion about a DNA program
        a few years out. If this is driven by
        ALMA then I have a real problem as it
        is what I would call technology push,
        rather than demand pull.
        I think any innovative producer group
        would implement similar strategies,
        with the difference being that it would
        help them extract value out of the
        marketplace. If everyone is forced
        into it with no market engagement
        beyond the farm gate, we are just
        giving value added product to the
        processor for commodity price.
        I hope I am proven wrong, but I can't
        see how the ALMA approach is going to
        produce any more $ for the guy on the
        ground with the cows. I do see how it
        can open markets and improve trade and
        value to the industry.
        I just think the approach and the use
        of funds (and amount of funds) has been
        a terrible waste at this point.

        Comment


          #28
          Exactly. “I think any innovative producer group would implement similar strategies, with the difference being that it would help them extract value out of the marketplace”

          The mandatory part is a big problem for me and I hope for most readers of these threads.

          “If everyone is forced into it with no market engagement beyond the farm gate, we are just giving value added product to the processor for commodity price.” Well said.

          No one can argue the fact that there was only one organization that stood up to Government and argued these strategies should not be mandatory. That organization was ABP.

          Why will the Government not allow producers to vote in a plebiscite to decide the check off issue? There can be only one reason, because the Government thinks producers will vote in favour of the present secure funding so that cow calf can have influence and ALMA will have someone speaking against their mandatory, their regulations. If we as cow calf producers end up having to jump to the Government’s tune we are little better than Government workers ourselves.

          Maybe Smcgrath76 knows and can enlighten me as to how many views these pages receive but assuming there is actually someone out there who reads Agri-ville then they need to be contacting their MLA and making their views known that they should have had the opportunity to vote on ABP’s future through a plebiscite.

          I realize there are regular contributors to these threads, and I consider rkaiser a regular contributor, who would tend to hope the particular organization they support will take over ABP’s role when ABP is gone. I think it is very optimistic to think that could happen. With ABP gone another organization will not step up to fill the void, ALMA will simply take over and “represent” us themselves. Too late the other organizations will realize they were simply being used as pawns. With no one left like ABP or even Alberta Pork/Alberta Lamb to stand up to ALMA there is no doubt we will see this Government impose more and more controls on our way of life.

          All ABP is asking for is a plebiscite vote to let producers decide the fate of ABP themselves. I ask again… why will Government not allow that to happen?

          And I note rkaiser’s attempts to pull the mask off of Batman. From my side of the computer that looks so ridiculous. I do belong to a whole host of organizations, and no not the one rkaiser thinks. I could not participate in Agriville under my name without facing restrictions in my professional consulting work. I am not using Agriville to sell purebred cattle or even steaks in Calgary. I am only trying to keep the discussion real and have no personal benefit other than being part of the cattle industry. So Batman it stays and rkaiser can keep guessing.

          As for being Chair of ABP…I could not even think of investing that much time away from my own farm and family to dedicate to industry issues and ABP. Those people have my respect.

          People (I assume people actually read these threads) you need to contact your MLA and demand that you decide the future of ABP through a plebiscite vote, not the Government. Government is making too many decisions for you as it is.

          Comment


            #29
            Why do you think that ABP is going to be gone Rob? You are so confident in a plebiscite. That must mean that thousands of ranchers would be willing to not only direct their checkoff to ABP but would pay a membership fee like the Western Stock Growers or Alberta Cattle Feeders collect. You may have even more money to play with should you take the membership fee approach. An approach used by true democratic organisations for years and years. Then maybe ABP would be able to join the Alliance of other true free market democratic groups and make a real difference when ALMA decisions are made.

            As for the ALMA stealing money from the entrepreneurs pocket.... Come now Sean. We all know that big organisations cannot move as fast as us. ABP is a perfect example. Could not even make a decision fast enough to get on board with the B5 group and influence ALMA rather than sit and whine about it.

            You know --- you are either in this all for ourselves, or trying to help an industry. I even take it a step farther and hope that the lead we are taking by offering the consumer hormone free beef is taken up by a larger group as I feel it is a good thing for the consumer in general. Lots of room to move ahead of the simple hormone free --- traceable product stage. What about CLA enhanced for instance. Whoops --- did I just let out a secret.... Ha ha ha

            And yes Rob, I will advertise here on Agriville and whenever and where ever possible. That is what people with good intentions and good products do. It is what free enterprise and true democracy is all about.

            At least I'm "Not" trying to manipulate stories about fear and destruction on here to save the ass of a so called democratic group that has done little but kiss the ass of the packers for the past 6 years.

            Which particular group do you think that I support Rob? I was a part of the creation of Canada Gold and sat at the table when ALMA began but put most of my effort into Canadian Celtic Cattle Company and Second to None Meat Shops. By the way --- You all can taste our wonderful product at the Calgary Stampede this year as most all of the beef on the grounds will be coming from our "Free Enterprise Value Chain" Or buy a Hot Dog from our store on the grounds in "Weedickville" where we paid big rent to get in to.

            Thanks for reminding me to put a plug in Robby boy.

            Comment


              #30
              That's the beauty of the printed word f_s, once you start getting letters to the editor published there is no hiding out under batman aliases.
              I note the 2 letters printed in my local paper (and likely others too) last week get roundly exposed as having been contributed by ABP sitting delegates in this week's replies.
              It does make a difference in this debate who is doing the shouting - concerned producers or people on the ABP payroll seeking to preserve their off-farm income stream.

              check out this weeks letters to the editor at; http://www.albertalocalnews.com/rimbeyreview/letters/

              Comment


                #31
                OH, THE IRONY OF IT ALL!!!!!

                Comment


                  #32
                  A couple of well written letters, Gf. It doesn't matter to me who fs is and he has every right as a rancher to express his opinion. As a director of the organization being defended though, full disclosure is a must. Otherwise it is a misrepresentation and reflects badly on said organization. As far a on Agriville goes, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who is who. The bottom line is it doesn't matter. All viewpoints are necessary. Now as suggested by farmers_son, make that call, send that email. Let's get this thing passed.

                  Comment


                    #33
                    As for the ALMA stealing money from the
                    entrepreneurs pocket.... Come now Sean.
                    We all know that big organisations
                    cannot move as fast as us. ABP is a
                    perfect example. Could not even make a
                    decision fast enough to get on board
                    with the B5 group and influence ALMA
                    rather than sit and whine about it.

                    Randy,
                    I am not concerned about stealing money
                    from the entrepreneur, as I am sure
                    both you and I are working fast a
                    furious to make ALMA look like ancient
                    history by the time it comes to
                    complete fruition. My concern stands
                    that the structure of the industry is
                    such that the processors will have a
                    captive (commodity) supply of value
                    added product and no need or reason to
                    return those premiums to the
                    marketplace. Currently, as
                    dysfunctional as things are, they at
                    least need to pay to secure these types
                    of offerings (whether they do or not is
                    another thread). If we are all
                    legislated top perform said "value
                    adding" for the good of the industry,
                    then they no longer need to pay.
                    For entrepreneurs outside of the
                    system, this is a non issue, for
                    producers taking the more historic
                    approach it is a huge one as it
                    increases costs and not returns.

                    Comment


                      #34
                      Good point Sean and exactly why the average producer needs to look more at supporting something like the Canada Gold program where the value chain sees the profit rather than the packer. ALMA was set up with value chains like Canada Gold in mind. Or, by golly, a producer owned packing facility like Canadian Legacy Partners suggests .

                      Funny part about Rob's fear mongering that the big feedlot boys will dictate policy in the future is that a lot of these so called big boys are supporters of Canada Gold. Gee Whiz --- are these ACFA memebers also forward thinking marketers attaching themselves to groups like Western Stock Growers and trying to help the entire industry.... Me thinks so.

                      What about you batman?

                      Comment


                        #35
                        Rkaiser: Perhaps I am going to refer to you as Dick from here on. I have read between the lines and have deduced you are really Dick from letters to the Editor a fellow named Dick wrote and it sure looked like you. It seems to me that Rkaiser is just a misnomer and the name is really Dick. And I think Grassfarmer is Jane, based on the same logic. Figure it out Dick and Jane...the name does not matter, just what is said.

                        Rkaiser: Some time back you tried to expose Cowman. Maybe you knew who Cowman was and maybe you were wrong, but we never got one more post from that contributor from that moment on. And Agriville has been the poorer for it.

                        I could call you Dick or I could call you Jane or I could call you Stephen Harper. I could call you black or I could call you white. However the best way to refer to you each would be rkaiser and grassfarmer because that is how you sign on here. I hope you understand that. You do not have a clue about me other than what I write in these threads (you may infer that I support the concept of ABP) and your imagination is working overtime and is way out in left field.

                        At some point it is about manners and politeness, anything else is pretty rude. I say I cannot put my name forward for professional reasons, that should be more than enough reason if a reason was even required... which it is not. Drop it. But know up front you are not chasing me away like you did Cowman.

                        Enough said about that.

                        I am not the least bit confident that ABP would win a plebiscite. I have no idea how that might go. The point is it would be the producers that decided the matter and not the Government. I think that is a crucial, underline crucial, difference. It should be producers deciding the plebiscite issue. If the people in favour of a refundable check off and Bill 43 had any faith in their convictions they would be in favour of a plebiscite too. Their reluctance to put their money where their mouth is speaks volumes to me.

                        Government should not be running agriculture and if you agree please phone you MLA and raise your voice against Bill 43. You should be deciding the check off issue by plebiscite vote not by Government decree.

                        Comment


                          #36
                          Okeedokkee batman... Seems to me that credibility works alongside transparency but not in your weird little world. Not trying to chase you off here buddy boy, just challenging your weird and wonderful dream world...LOL

                          I never thought I said anything bad enough to be called a dick.. LOL

                          Comment

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