Government Should Not Be Running Agriculture

[per]

Saw my MLA today. He believes that true democracy would give producers a Choice every year. I concur.

[wilagro]

The best solution to getting Government OUT of CONTROLLING agriculture is to VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT. You guys are just too CHICKEN to do so. Soooo suffer the consequences of your INACTION.

[grassfarmer]

What like a revolution you mean? Doesn't matter which party is ruling - Governments always want to create more governing, it's job security.

[wilagro]

Allowing ONE party to run this province for forty years is totally ridiculous. The governing party feels that no matter what they do it will be okay because NOBODY will oppose it enough to defeat them at the polls. What will it take to remove the PCs? Maybe when you guys/gals get damned angry something will change your present choice...or perhaps after you are ALL BANKRUPT. IT CAN HAPPEN and maybe sooner than you think.

I never thought that this province would ever be controlling agriculture and especially the livestock industry...but here we are at the mercy of a bunch of bureaucrats who will earn big money telling you what you can do or can't do on your own farm or ranch. If you accept this scenario, then it is your funeral.

[farmers_son]

I could rehash what was already said and point out that the Stelmach Government has not given this Provinces cattle producers any choice through a plebiscite on who starting March 31, 2010 will control Alberta Beef Producers… large feedlot or the average cow calf producer.

I could rehash points that have already been made that cow calf has no choice in participating the in great ALMA scheme through MANDATORY age verification, MANDATORY premise ID, MANDATORY vaccination records, MANDATORY weaning dates, MANDATORY tracking of animal movements, and so on and so on and so on. And yes the cow calf producers do notice there is really no MANDATORY for the feedlots who are much more supportive of AMLA and the million dollar plus AFRP II cheques they received.

I could bring up points that have already been made in earlier posts that delegates to Alberta Beef Producers are democratically ELECTED by producers themselves, one producer one vote. The ALMA board and all advisers are appointed by Minister Groeneveld and are responsible only to the Minister. As far as I know only one of the ALMA board members would ever get shit on their shoes and really without exception they have nothing in common with the men and women actually raising the cows.

I could go over points that have already been made that this Government intends to crush any opposition to ALMA and ensure there is no one who is able to stand up to this very autocratic regime and producers will only be left with a fragmented voice and no one voice that is strong enough to question anything the Stelmach Government does.

However the point of this thread is Government should not be running agriculture. ALMA is not your usual run of the mill Government Agency. ALMA is going to force you as cow calf producers to follow the Stelmach Government's vision of what is best for your farm and you can either follow that vision or exit the industry. We have never seen anything like this in Canada before. And I am saying to you that these MLAs, most of whom are city MLAs but even the MLAs representing rural Alberta do not have a clue about our business. Arno Doerksen would be the only exception I know of and if he stays in Government long enough even Arno will lose touch with what is real and what is make believe. People… we are being herded into a tight corral here where we get run through the chute of Government control. ABP was the only, I repeat ONLY organization to stand up to more ALMA control and look what is happening to ABP.

You really do need to phone, write, talk to your MLA and gain what democracy you can back for yourself. The first thing we need to accomplish is to be able to decide who controls ABP, cow calf or feedlot. We can do that through a plebiscite vote. If Bill 43 stands then the feedlots control ABP by virtue of a lot of check off dollars in the control of only 20 feedlots. If there were a plebiscite and if the plebiscite vote is in favour of secure funding for ABP than ABP can continue to demand market place solutions from the Stelmach Government instead of more mandatory and more government control from people who would not know the front end of a cow from the rear.

[grassfarmer]

You could rehash a lot of things farmers_son but it wouldn't make them right or true.
ABP by it's past decisions has not proven itself a family farm cow/calf organization versus a feedlot one (the $3 million CAIS limit, the difficulty of getting a cow/calf council within ABP despite there being a feeder council already are examples)

It is quite untrue that mandatory does not apply to feedlots. Feedlots had to track animal movements in and out as of Jan 1st 2009, using an EID reader if they were over 1000 head on a mandatory basis. This type of tracking is not mandatory for cow/calf producers.

ABP delegates may have "shit on their shoes" but do they have the experience, global knowledge and vision to know what is required to export Alberta beef around the world and sell it for premium prices? ABP vision continues to be limited to producers dropping off live cattle at the door of our 2 huge packers and allowing them to reap the benefits of playing the US market and screwing producers over in a non-competitive environment.

I would suggest there are several MLA's other than Arno Doerksen who know about the cattle business. George Groeneveld would be one, Ty Lund is another - these guys have been on farms involved with cattle all their lives. How come Arno is so great anyway but you hate Kee Jim? they were both ABP/CCA servants until recently. One joined ALMA and one joined the PC Government both of which you hate so why the difference?

[farmers_son]

Kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel with those comments aren’t you? I do not hate anyone and you know I never said I did. Kee Jim is a perfect example of an ALMA board member who is in it to further his own profit. Like the other board members they have no interest in your family farm. In fact they want you to exit the industry so the cattle industry can be run by themselves and their big shot feedlot friends.

I take it you think George and Ty should be running your business because they must know more than you do. I have met George and spoken with him. He does not understand much and is quite out of touch. I am all too aware of how he pulled the Alberta Wheat Pool down when he was director of AWP and now he wants to do the same to Alberta’s livestock sector.

I appreciate that there are people who welcome more government involvement in their farms. The NFU comes to mind. NFU is a pretty small group in Alberta and there are quite a few other pretty small groups that have jumped into bed with Government and the BIA to support far greater government involvement in our industry. They do this for a variety of political reasons which they are keeping to themselves. However I think they are being short sighted and will rue the day when they encouraged Government to take over our industry.

I myself do not want more government involvement in our lives. I think mandatory has no place in agriculture. I believe and hope there are a lot of people out there who agree with that or else there is no point of posting anything on these pages.

We have people sitting in Government or appointed on Government Agencies like ALMA that think they know more than I do and you do. They believe they should run our farms. Clearly Government believes that we should be made to do as ALMA mandates or else exit the industry.

I think ALMA should be told to take a flying leap and get out of our business. It is ALMA and George Groeneveld who need to exit the industry.

If you believe Government should not be running agriculture and your family's farm then you need to do everything you can to stop Bill 43. ABP was the only organization that stood up for cow calf’s right to be free from mandates, regulations and fines. The only organization to stand up for you was ABP, the rest were hopping into bed with Government.

Bill 43 would take away ABP's and the other producer livestock organizations (lamb and hogs) secure funding. Without the Alberta Beef Producers, Alberta Pork and Alberta Lamb then ALMA and the Government will be left in charge and in control of the Alberta livestock sector.

Producers should be deciding the future of ABP through a plebiscite. You need to phone, email, write and request a plebiscite on the future of ABP. Anything and everything works. Your silence is taken for approval for Bill 43 or worse that you do not care.

You yourself can make a real and lasting difference. Bill 43 will get third reading on or about May 28. There is still time. You should be voting on this yourself though a producer plebiscite. Ask for that right to vote in a plebiscite on an issue that is crucial to how Government is involved in your farm going forward from here. Who will be deciding the future of the livestock industry in Alberta? Will it be you, the cow calf producer or will it be the feedlots and the Government?

Contact information is at:

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/net/index.aspx?p=mla_home

Hint…you can download an excel file with every MLA’s email address, copy and paste all those addresses into the "To" box of one message and with a click of a button make your views known to every MLA in the Province. They are keeping count and your input will make a great difference. Let us decide the future of the cattle industry democratically through a plebiscite.

You can also phone toll free by using the Rite line at 310-0000.

ABP has a form letter you could download at:

www.albertabeef.org

Thank you.

[rkaiser]

Holy catfish Batman is really coming out of the closet this time around. Gonna take a run at chairman of ABP or what? ABP will survive if you are right about the support you think you have Robby boy. There are some pretty big feedlot players who were always on the front lines at any ABP annual or semi annual I attended. Buried most of them there "shit on their boots delegates" in a hell of a hurry. Would have stopped that cow calf council thing for good if they had there druthers.

Of course you might have to trim some fat and not quite have the same board room table that is bigger than any table I have ever seen. And the trips to suck up with the packer asskissing NCBA boys may have to be put on hold. Maybe even a few less useless trips to Washington to open that durn border....LOL

This whole thread is a joke. ABP has now all of a sudden become the voice of the cow calf producer.... HA. Packer ass kissin gone???? Boards favoring feedlot and industry council over cow calf committees gone??? For cripe's sake Robby boy. You're loosing it. This industry has as much or more potential to turn around from this move as it does to make things worse.... Worse???? How the hell could it be worse. There is and has been "NO" profit in the conventional cow calf industry since BSE, and ABP has not created any more than that "NO Profit" scenario with any of there policies. Now you want us to support them.

Acceptance Enjoyment Enthusiasm. ABP is toast in it's former role. Move on and enjoy life and find a way to use the new system to make some of that illusive, but not impossible profit.

This whole thing may finally wake the cow calf folk that have been burning up equity for years in this dysfunctional system, to get themselves closer to the consumer where we bloody well belong.

ALMA and things like the Canada Gold program are the way of the future.

I'd hate to see you exit the industry because of delusion Rob.

Maybe we shouold send this one in to the Rimbey review to counter the front runner for the new chairman of ABP.

No hard feeling Rob. Do what your heart tells you to do.

[rkaiser]

Oh yes --- maybe you need to get out a bit Rob and take a trip down south to some of the empty Van Raay feedlots. Those big boys that you think are going to take over the industry with their checkoff dollars are either connected directly to your packer buddies or are hurting as bad as you.

There is a danger all right. A danger of more integration with Cargill and now our new/old Canadian LOL friends with even more control and likely more American money, but somehow ABP is avoiding this concentration issue in lei of that big friggin table...

[smcgrath76]

I am not sure I won't ask for a refund
on my checkoff, and I am not sure I am
getting value from ABP. That said, I
sure do NOT approve of ALMA or the
moves of the AB Gov of late. I think
if there is demand for specific product
attributes (hormone free, age verified,
etc) then someone needs to pay for it.
If all producers are forced to do the
steps outlined in ALMA we have just
given away a lot of our marketing
leverage as individual producers. I
think the population of cattle ranchers
will decline for sure, I am not sure
about the cattle population.
Quite frankly I am not sure anyone is
really thinking these days. As for a
plebiscite, nice idea but it is not
going to happen. I suggested some
ways/means to implement a refundable
checkoff at the local policy meeting,
but I suspect that the structure of ABP
results in being bogged down in a lot
of the what ifs/don't offend, rather
than taking sides and moving forward.

[rkaiser]

Don't know how ALMA is forcing you to do anything Sean? Other than tracking animals through identification.

We could simply stand our ground like the Rcalf boys and challenge any kind of threat to the cowboy way of doing things.

Yes ALMA is a bold move by the Government, but is it control or an innovative way to get us out of a dysfunctional marketplace. Once forced on us by this joke called BSE. I just wish ALMA would have went one step further and given the packing industry the ability to really use the Canadian Branded card and allow BSE testing for market access.

Speaking of which --- I guess it's my turn to vent today.. All this blah blah blah from ABP about democracy is getting my goat. How many delegates have been elected to their positions in the last 7 years Rob? And if they were actually elected, how many challengers did they face. ABP is set up to be democratic alright, but it is certainly not functioning that way. Most cattleman and women have simply giving up on challenging the 3 buck checkoff and let these folks at ABP play with it. Once again, there are some good things that ABP does, I admit, but bragging about being the saviour of the cow calf man is certainly not something ABP needs to be doing when most of their efforts for the past 6 years have done little for the rancher and a lot for continued expansion of our multinational corporate controlers from packer to retailer.

And why is it that this plebiscite issue is now such a big thing. What about when a more major issue to this industry's shit hit the fan a few years back. Where was the call for true democracy back then. Back when Beef Initiative Group Canada went on the road in front of at least ten times the average turnout at the ABP fall meetings and saw overwhelming support for market access BSE testing? Something that had and still has the potential to turn this great country's beef industry around in a heartbeat.

Now there is a call for a plebiscite to protect some per diem cheques and a great big board room table????

You want a united voice... A big voice to tell the government what you want? Maybe ABP needs to consider joining the BIA, or maybe they could have stepped up to the plate and jumped on board when George invited them to be part of the B5 group that started the ALMA process.

Do we need to listen to more Rhetoric and fear from Rob and the ABP, or feel sorry for the position that ABP put themselves in? Or do we listen to the whole story?

ABP is taking a very typical political fear mongering role right now and is loosing even more credibility in this cowman's mind.

[smcgrath76]

Randy,
ALMA is not forcing me to do anything
that I am not already doing. In fact
we are several years ahead of ALMA. It
is going to force others to catch me,
thus erasing some of the premiums we
are currently enjoying (self centred, I
suppose).
Based on what I understand of ALMA the
start is mandatory premise id and age
verification. Next is movement
tracking and on farm food safety, then
there is discussion about a DNA program
a few years out. If this is driven by
ALMA then I have a real problem as it
is what I would call technology push,
rather than demand pull.
I think any innovative producer group
would implement similar strategies,
with the difference being that it would
help them extract value out of the
marketplace. If everyone is forced
into it with no market engagement
beyond the farm gate, we are just
giving value added product to the
processor for commodity price.
I hope I am proven wrong, but I can't
see how the ALMA approach is going to
produce any more $ for the guy on the
ground with the cows. I do see how it
can open markets and improve trade and
value to the industry.
I just think the approach and the use
of funds (and amount of funds) has been
a terrible waste at this point.

[farmers_son]

Exactly. “I think any innovative producer group would implement similar strategies, with the difference being that it would help them extract value out of the marketplace”

The mandatory part is a big problem for me and I hope for most readers of these threads.

“If everyone is forced into it with no market engagement beyond the farm gate, we are just giving value added product to the processor for commodity price.” Well said.

No one can argue the fact that there was only one organization that stood up to Government and argued these strategies should not be mandatory. That organization was ABP.

Why will the Government not allow producers to vote in a plebiscite to decide the check off issue? There can be only one reason, because the Government thinks producers will vote in favour of the present secure funding so that cow calf can have influence and ALMA will have someone speaking against their mandatory, their regulations. If we as cow calf producers end up having to jump to the Government’s tune we are little better than Government workers ourselves.

Maybe Smcgrath76 knows and can enlighten me as to how many views these pages receive but assuming there is actually someone out there who reads Agri-ville then they need to be contacting their MLA and making their views known that they should have had the opportunity to vote on ABP’s future through a plebiscite.

I realize there are regular contributors to these threads, and I consider rkaiser a regular contributor, who would tend to hope the particular organization they support will take over ABP’s role when ABP is gone. I think it is very optimistic to think that could happen. With ABP gone another organization will not step up to fill the void, ALMA will simply take over and “represent” us themselves. Too late the other organizations will realize they were simply being used as pawns. With no one left like ABP or even Alberta Pork/Alberta Lamb to stand up to ALMA there is no doubt we will see this Government impose more and more controls on our way of life.

All ABP is asking for is a plebiscite vote to let producers decide the fate of ABP themselves. I ask again… why will Government not allow that to happen?

And I note rkaiser’s attempts to pull the mask off of Batman. From my side of the computer that looks so ridiculous. I do belong to a whole host of organizations, and no not the one rkaiser thinks. I could not participate in Agriville under my name without facing restrictions in my professional consulting work. I am not using Agriville to sell purebred cattle or even steaks in Calgary. I am only trying to keep the discussion real and have no personal benefit other than being part of the cattle industry. So Batman it stays and rkaiser can keep guessing.

As for being Chair of ABP…I could not even think of investing that much time away from my own farm and family to dedicate to industry issues and ABP. Those people have my respect.

People (I assume people actually read these threads) you need to contact your MLA and demand that you decide the future of ABP through a plebiscite vote, not the Government. Government is making too many decisions for you as it is.

[rkaiser]

Why do you think that ABP is going to be gone Rob? You are so confident in a plebiscite. That must mean that thousands of ranchers would be willing to not only direct their checkoff to ABP but would pay a membership fee like the Western Stock Growers or Alberta Cattle Feeders collect. You may have even more money to play with should you take the membership fee approach. An approach used by true democratic organisations for years and years. Then maybe ABP would be able to join the Alliance of other true free market democratic groups and make a real difference when ALMA decisions are made.

As for the ALMA stealing money from the entrepreneurs pocket.... Come now Sean. We all know that big organisations cannot move as fast as us. ABP is a perfect example. Could not even make a decision fast enough to get on board with the B5 group and influence ALMA rather than sit and whine about it.

You know --- you are either in this all for ourselves, or trying to help an industry. I even take it a step farther and hope that the lead we are taking by offering the consumer hormone free beef is taken up by a larger group as I feel it is a good thing for the consumer in general. Lots of room to move ahead of the simple hormone free --- traceable product stage. What about CLA enhanced for instance. Whoops --- did I just let out a secret.... Ha ha ha

And yes Rob, I will advertise here on Agriville and whenever and where ever possible. That is what people with good intentions and good products do. It is what free enterprise and true democracy is all about.

At least I'm "Not" trying to manipulate stories about fear and destruction on here to save the ass of a so called democratic group that has done little but kiss the ass of the packers for the past 6 years.

Which particular group do you think that I support Rob? I was a part of the creation of Canada Gold and sat at the table when ALMA began but put most of my effort into Canadian Celtic Cattle Company and Second to None Meat Shops. By the way --- You all can taste our wonderful product at the Calgary Stampede this year as most all of the beef on the grounds will be coming from our "Free Enterprise Value Chain" Or buy a Hot Dog from our store on the grounds in "Weedickville" where we paid big rent to get in to.

Thanks for reminding me to put a plug in Robby boy.

[grassfarmer]

That's the beauty of the printed word f_s, once you start getting letters to the editor published there is no hiding out under batman aliases.
I note the 2 letters printed in my local paper (and likely others too) last week get roundly exposed as having been contributed by ABP sitting delegates in this week's replies.
It does make a difference in this debate who is doing the shouting - concerned producers or people on the ABP payroll seeking to preserve their off-farm income stream.

check out this weeks letters to the editor at; http://www.albertalocalnews.com/rimbeyreview/letters/