old tame grass stand

[max]

I have an old stand of crestedwheat and meadowbrome pasture on some light sandy soil that isn't very productive any more. Ripping it up is not an option. Looking for ways to reguvenate it. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

[smcgrath76]

We have had good luck with some of the
following...
1. Bale graze it
2. Spread manure on it, and throw part
of a coffee can full of alfalfa seed on
the spreader.
3. Fence it into small paddocks and
graze it intensively then give it long
rest periods.

[per]

I pick #3 and a little #2 in with the mineral. Cicer Milkvetch would be my legume of choice. A trip over it with an aerator could be useful as well.

[charliep]

You have to have a look beyond supplies and at what would appear to be a large June, July and August sales program (for wheat ex durum). I note the comment on a record April program and a beginning May that is moving supplies out rapidly. Will be an interesting couple of months as things play out to the end of the crop both from the logistics side as well as well as how the supply chain partners "play in the sand box together".

I note your comments about reading over contractual commitments - particularly if you have been rolling volumes forward fro the A and B series. It is interesting as a ag economist case study to compare canola (open market) to wheat (regulated market).

[charliep]

It will be interesting to look at the CONTRIBUTION FROM OTHER REVENUE SOURCES performance measure in the 2008/09 final report (have to wait for 10 months to see). This measure has code words like discretionary trading and wheat pool pricing model. Will be interesting how a monthly bulge in exports is handled in this process and the impact on the performance measure.

[vagabonddreamer]

quite a bit of the soil here in the sunny and warm and beautiful okanagan valley..(just gotta rub that in).. is similar to what you describe...i have been doing quite a bit of research on foliar fertilizer and i wonder if it might be better on sandy pourous soil...than granular??? there are several new types and brands out there and it seems to be gaining in popularity...vs

[charliep]

My last post would likely fit into the weird category so should
likely explain somewhat.

Exports would appear (will be a lot more accurate in 2 1/2
months) to be 10 % over the CWB December forecast of 16
MMT. A good thing given the combination of customer, price
and logistics. As a performance measure, does that mean
the CWB will show 110 % a and if so what does it mean?

From the sales plan and pricing model, what impact does
more sales than anticipate have on the other performance
measure in the other income/discretionary trading.
Hopefully the CWB would just deposit this extra sales
revenue in pooling accounts and distribute in the final
payments. Being simple is sometimes good.

[Hopperbin]

Charlie or anyone is the CWB getting into any markets on CWSWS wheat? Last year the pool ended up quite nicely but this year the PRO is not so great. From what I understand is that the board does not normally export this wheat due to low price.

[max]

what amount of fertilizer are you talking about. Of course with this cold dry spring the lack of grass looks 10 times worse than in previous years.

[farmers_son]

I bet if you soil tested you would find all the nitrogen is gone. Any kind of fertilizer would probably make a huge difference. Manure works great but it takes a lot to make a difference.

vagabonddreamer: Not warm here. It is one month from today until the longest day of the year and it is still freezing every night. Forecast is for a hard frost tonight and tomorrow night too.

[charliep]

Can't help you with the CWB strategy and competitive
pricing other than noting our competition is Australia,
some out of the US Pacific North West and Europe.

The export numbers are in a Canadian Grain
Commission publication (sadly only one year so would
have to set up a spread sheet). Look specifically at
pages 17 and 18.

http://www.grainscanada.gc.ca/statistics-
statistiques/cge-ecg/annual/exports-07-08-eng.pdf

To put the numbers to 2007/08, Canada exported
73,600 tonnes of Soft White - 36,300 to S.E. Asia and
37,300 to western hemisphere. Not sure on what
share goes into the domestic milling market.

A little checking shows the CGC didn't brake out SWS
wheat in the previous two years and rather shoved
into other category I assume - maybe because there
was so little it would bring up buyer confidentiality
reasons.

Perhaps the real story is western Canada is not
competitive in soft wheat world markets and should
really only be growing for the domestic one - milling
and ethanol.

Given the CWB has separate fpc contracts for soft
white, not sure why the CWB doesn't go to separate
pooling for this wheat at worst or 100 % cash pricing
as a best solution.

[grassfarmer]

I guess it depends how quick you want results, how much you want to spend and what caused the pasture to be played out and unproductive in the first place.
I've tried most of the above suggestions at various times with varied success.
Aeriating was a waste of time and diesel, I also wouldn't put fertilizer on my worst piece of pasture in a dry (or any?)spring. Probably more economic to fertilise a fairly good pasture and rest this one completely for a year if you want to use fertiliser. My experience with renovating old, abused pastures is that it takes time - I like applying legume seed through cows mineral to reseed(although we have had zero success with cicer milk vetch done this way). Intensive mob grazing once you have a good quantity of forage growing (like after a whole season rest) might kick start the pasture. Bale grazing, winter feeding or spreading manure all work too.
The thing that is most likely to work is patience - if you haven't got that work it up and reseed. I did that with a couple of my very worst pastures and you know despite the initial cost the extra production has more than paid for it compared to my next worst pastures. Sometimes working up and reseeding isn't the worst choice.

[per]

All the good nitrogen fixing biology is in the aerobic zone. If it is compacted and it most likely is then it need to be flocculated (fancy word for breaking the bond of the clay that keeps it compacted). Water soluble calcium applied to the soil will do this. Aeration mechanically will also help and give a compacted soil a start at being aerobic. Of course in a perfectly well managed healthy aerobic zone soil it is not necessary. That doesn't sound like the case we have here. As far a Cicer goes, I like it better than Alfalfa as a food source. Not much experience in the mineral though and I defer to GFs experience there. If the grass types are acceptable to you I would always try to regenerate rather than reseed especially in a dry area. When reseeding there are outside risks in the seed like weeds you have never heard of and luck of bad timing with rain etc. I am working on a newly seeded stand of Alfalfa that came with hawks beard. No one solution works everywhere. Good luck.

[Reitnorf]

I've had some success with spiking a old stand at 90 degree angles, harrow the sh#t out of it, then roll it. However this is done after a winter of bale grazing. Anything you could do to get a legume in there would also be great, possibly before it was harrowed.