We really need to have election scares more often...

[smcgrath76]

GF - I would argue that the sooner
INTERESTED producers can build that food
chain and supply the world...

[grassfarmer]

OK Sean, fair enough INTERESTED producers but I don't agree with "supply the world" I think the opportunities to supply the world will always be governed by those controlling the distribution and retailing infrastructure - shipping lines, ports etc. When producers don't currently have the ability to work together to own and operate a small packing plant I can't see them ever owning distribution capacity.
There is no point in us producing good healthy product up to slaughter point then selling it wholesale to distributers. At least that is not what I am interested in.

[smcgrath76]

GF - the reason I say feed the world is
that I think it is irresponsible of us as
a nation to have the ability to produce
vastly more than we can ever consume. I
didn't ever say sell to wholesale or
multinational, but I do think we have an
obligation to think beyond local based on
the capability of our resources.

[skhadenuf]

Getting back to the original comment, us farmers as a whole are so freakin passive, our ag minister went on and on all summer how he's looked at the programs and even once his quote was "trust me these programs are going to work" then just days after election threat, oh gee I just realized these programs won't work for the livestock sector well either it's incompetance or just another minister feeding us all bullshit. Now I wonder if he has also realized these programs are also not working for grains either since it's all the same principles applied.
You mean to say mr. Ritz moving CAIS to Melville isn't going to improve the program? well of course it isn't scrap this crap all of it. If this were europe his office would have been pummeled to the ground.

[burnt]

Grassfarmer, I don't think you should confuse "the best food . . ." with "the worst eating choices". By the best food I mean the availability, broad variety and quality in the world. Available at about 10% of disposable income. When I see obese people chowing down at McDonald's, I am not inclined to think of a faulty food supply - only their choices. But as far as the retail price, you are correct to a degree, there likely is enough room there for a bit more for the farmer/producer. Which points us to the fact the our product value discovery system is broken.

[burnt]

I should have added that unless one moves to correct the value discovery system, all the programs one could think of are only bandages on a severed artery.

[kato]

Which sooner or later will fail. A system where the primary food producers cannot sustain themselves is doomed to fail eventually. If this is the system our country wants, then the loss of control over the food security of the country is inevitable. As are the higher prices that will follow when we no longer have any say in anything to do with the food supply.

It's the price paid for not supporting Canadian food producers. I guess it's a matter of "be careful what you ask for, because you might get it." As a percentage of income, Canadians don't spend that much on food, especially compared to other countries. And they've never seen real hunger either.

The drive to the bottom regarding prices is part of our culture. No one seeing those ads all about how prices have been rolled back at places like Walmart realizes that the rollback does not come out of Walmart's share of the pie, but whoever is the supplier. Walmart is doing nobody any favours, as much as they like to go on and on about how they work so hard to save you money. Those savings are not coming out of the Walmart balance sheet.

That rollback goes on down the chain until it gets to the one person who cannot pass it on, which would be you and me.

We've been soaking up the costs of inflation and the costs of retail competition for a lot of years. We're the end of the line, and any so called savings at the checkout counter are coming right out of our pockets.

Until we can find a way to be the ones to set the value of our products, be they beef, hogs or grains, we will still need safety net programs, and they will need to be more than the smoke and mirrors we've got now.

Which brings me back to my original thought. How would we fix these programs?

[grassfarmer]

My answer would be you don't fix the programs. Instead create the situation for ourselves where we can be price setters. With our beef retailing sideline I'm finding that not been as difficult as I thought.

[kato]

I'm finding that as well with my farmer's market sideline. The trouble with the direct marketing thing though, is that not everyone wants to get into it, for various reasons. I personally just love going off to the market, and meeting and visiting with all the people who come to buy. My husband, on the other hand, came with me once last summer and absolutely hated every minute of it. He couldn't wait for it to be over so he could get back to the farm. This year he's more than happy to chip in and help me pick tomatoes and load up the veggies, but he totally refuses to come along.

The idea of direct marketing beef would be just as appealing to him. He's just not into it. There are probably lots of cattle producers just like him, who are most happy when they can just do what they do best and raise the best cattle they can, without the issues that come along with dealing with the public.

So what is a person to do?

[grassfarmer]

I think the financial side would entice most producers if they gave it a try. Sold a heiferette as beef recently - paid the astronomical processing charges and was still left with $700 PER SIDE to bank. Compare that to getting what? under $500 for selling her as a cull and I think enthusiasm would develop for most guys.
Now I think it's the best reward in the world when new potential customers call you up prepared to spend $900-$1000 on a half beef for their family based simply on what they have read about your methods of production. I think the consumers that contact us are wonderful - they so want that personal connection with producers and when you think about it are prepared to take a big financial risk because they are so unhappy with the store bought "best beef in the world".
I hate now when I hear producers moan about consumers only wanting the cheapest food they can buy and not wanting to support producers - it is so not true in my experience.

[burnt]

Grassfarmer what you are saying is true to a point - YOUR customers have learned to look beyond the price tag. MOST have not. That is why superstores exist.

[perfecho]

But even some "Superstores" are looking at a local market for their products......they know the next biggest trend is going to be local, fresh and supporting your neigbouring farmer. It is up to us to get on the band wagon and help steer the damn thing ;-)

[smcgrath76]

We can't forget that there are only 30
million of us, mostly in the east and that
we are aging and eating less red meat. I
don't think that "local" or even national
can sustain the current cow herd size.
there could be a lot of pain in
downsizinng to that level, although we
could argue all day that we should or
shouldn't get to that size.

[grassfarmer]

I see that as a largely moot point Sean - we can't sustain the current herd size under the current set up - even with the band aids of AgrisStability or CAIS. The "global marketplace" isn't making money for producers with the current herd size and nobody seems to care. If nobody cares about herd reduction why is it a factor when we discuss building a more sustainable system based on local food, domestic consumers and direct marketing?

[smcgrath76]

GF - I don't think it is moot. There
are a lot of questions around that point
if we were to focus strictly locally...
1. How are we going to get rid of
3,000,000 cows?
2. What are they going to be worth or
how are we going to pay for exit?
3. How much processing capacity do we
need to kill 1,000,000 head a year and
does that further concentrate power into
existing processor(s)?
4. What are the environmental impacts of
converting forage land to something else
that generate revenue since we won't
require the land base we do now?
5. How will we handle competition from
low cost producers outside of Canada?
6. What do we do with the parts no one
wants to eat, or do we just structure
things so that we are paid enough we can
afford to dump them?
and I am sure there are a lot of others.
I think even in a massive herd reduction
the reduction/exodus will come from the
very people we want to continue in the
business (small/medium sized family
farms).