We really need to have election scares more often...

[smcgrath76]

GF - I think I actually tend to agree
with you on this one. The challenge is
that as the rules increase in complexity
the enforcement costs soon outweigh the
value of the program. I get pretty
pissy when I see a farm sticker on a two
seater car, but I know several
horticulture operations that use
minivans as a regular part of their farm
business. It is tough to say where to
draw the line, particularly on a mixed
type of operation, where a SUV may be
used to transport product to a Farmer's
market.
I know a lot of people take advantage of
the program as I have personally seen
construction outfits and others fill at
the purple pump when they have
absolutely no business doing so.
That said I also don't really want the
invasion of privacy and PITA factor that
comes with full blown enforcement.
Like most things it is a double edged
sword. Low fuel costs also facilitate
greenhouse gas emissions and less
efficient use of a non renewable
resource.

[burnt]

grassfarmer, I think it depends upon what you are making your comparison when determining whether or not food prices are high or low.

Of course, there are very few consumers who think they are low, but in comparison to the rest of the world, our food prices are unsupportably low. And this in a country with one of the world's highest standards of living!

Our consumers are soooo spoiled - the best AND the cheapest! What more could they want, free?

[grassfarmer]

Burnt, if you compare what primary producers of beef receive for their live cattle and compare it with what consumers pay for the cuts in the grocery store I think you would agree the consumer was paying quite a hefty price.
I do not agree for a minute that retail prices in Canada are unsupportably low. On most products there is more than enough margin in the system to pay the primary producer enough to earn a dignified living - if they were only able to access a fair share of that consumer dollar.

As for having the best food in the world you've got to be kidding! best in what unhealthy saturated fats? highest in corn sugar? Where it's nice to claim Canadian beef or Alberta beef is the "best in the world" from a primary producers limited viewpoint how does that translate into the actual food that is retailed and consumed in this country?
I think you only have to look at the overweight population driving through the MCDonalds, Tim Hortons etc loading up on their next feed of artery clogging junk food to lay claims of the best food in the world firmly to rest.
You could maybe look to France, Germany or Switzerland for some clues on healthier food.
The sooner Canadian producers can built an alternate food supply system supplying healthy, natural foods off our farms direct to the consumer the better it will be for both producer and consumer.

[smcgrath76]

GF - I would argue that the sooner
INTERESTED producers can build that food
chain and supply the world...

[grassfarmer]

OK Sean, fair enough INTERESTED producers but I don't agree with "supply the world" I think the opportunities to supply the world will always be governed by those controlling the distribution and retailing infrastructure - shipping lines, ports etc. When producers don't currently have the ability to work together to own and operate a small packing plant I can't see them ever owning distribution capacity.
There is no point in us producing good healthy product up to slaughter point then selling it wholesale to distributers. At least that is not what I am interested in.

[smcgrath76]

GF - the reason I say feed the world is
that I think it is irresponsible of us as
a nation to have the ability to produce
vastly more than we can ever consume. I
didn't ever say sell to wholesale or
multinational, but I do think we have an
obligation to think beyond local based on
the capability of our resources.

[skhadenuf]

Getting back to the original comment, us farmers as a whole are so freakin passive, our ag minister went on and on all summer how he's looked at the programs and even once his quote was "trust me these programs are going to work" then just days after election threat, oh gee I just realized these programs won't work for the livestock sector well either it's incompetance or just another minister feeding us all bullshit. Now I wonder if he has also realized these programs are also not working for grains either since it's all the same principles applied.
You mean to say mr. Ritz moving CAIS to Melville isn't going to improve the program? well of course it isn't scrap this crap all of it. If this were europe his office would have been pummeled to the ground.

[burnt]

Grassfarmer, I don't think you should confuse "the best food . . ." with "the worst eating choices". By the best food I mean the availability, broad variety and quality in the world. Available at about 10% of disposable income. When I see obese people chowing down at McDonald's, I am not inclined to think of a faulty food supply - only their choices. But as far as the retail price, you are correct to a degree, there likely is enough room there for a bit more for the farmer/producer. Which points us to the fact the our product value discovery system is broken.

[burnt]

I should have added that unless one moves to correct the value discovery system, all the programs one could think of are only bandages on a severed artery.

[kato]

Which sooner or later will fail. A system where the primary food producers cannot sustain themselves is doomed to fail eventually. If this is the system our country wants, then the loss of control over the food security of the country is inevitable. As are the higher prices that will follow when we no longer have any say in anything to do with the food supply.

It's the price paid for not supporting Canadian food producers. I guess it's a matter of "be careful what you ask for, because you might get it." As a percentage of income, Canadians don't spend that much on food, especially compared to other countries. And they've never seen real hunger either.

The drive to the bottom regarding prices is part of our culture. No one seeing those ads all about how prices have been rolled back at places like Walmart realizes that the rollback does not come out of Walmart's share of the pie, but whoever is the supplier. Walmart is doing nobody any favours, as much as they like to go on and on about how they work so hard to save you money. Those savings are not coming out of the Walmart balance sheet.

That rollback goes on down the chain until it gets to the one person who cannot pass it on, which would be you and me.

We've been soaking up the costs of inflation and the costs of retail competition for a lot of years. We're the end of the line, and any so called savings at the checkout counter are coming right out of our pockets.

Until we can find a way to be the ones to set the value of our products, be they beef, hogs or grains, we will still need safety net programs, and they will need to be more than the smoke and mirrors we've got now.

Which brings me back to my original thought. How would we fix these programs?

[grassfarmer]

My answer would be you don't fix the programs. Instead create the situation for ourselves where we can be price setters. With our beef retailing sideline I'm finding that not been as difficult as I thought.

[kato]

I'm finding that as well with my farmer's market sideline. The trouble with the direct marketing thing though, is that not everyone wants to get into it, for various reasons. I personally just love going off to the market, and meeting and visiting with all the people who come to buy. My husband, on the other hand, came with me once last summer and absolutely hated every minute of it. He couldn't wait for it to be over so he could get back to the farm. This year he's more than happy to chip in and help me pick tomatoes and load up the veggies, but he totally refuses to come along.

The idea of direct marketing beef would be just as appealing to him. He's just not into it. There are probably lots of cattle producers just like him, who are most happy when they can just do what they do best and raise the best cattle they can, without the issues that come along with dealing with the public.

So what is a person to do?