Organic land for sale in Sask.

[Hopperbin]

Oct. 22 Richie Bros. 6 Quarters Cert. organic land for sale, Dunne Agra Ltd., lets see if organic agriculture can compete with conventional. Who will be the highest bidder? Organic ag. says we are slaves to big corp. Conventional say organic don't produce anything. This sale will decide who wears the pants.

[bgmb]

I wouldn't want to buy organic land, nutrients have been sucked out and not replaced. How is that sustainable?

[fjlip]

Some in the area, every weed on the planet wall to wall. Even 2009 SMF killed none of them. This crop maybe 15bu/ac 20% DKG. What's that worth? One could buy it cheap, chem fallow and clean it up a bit. It would need higher rates of fertilizer too.

[parsley]

But, wouldn't it be ironic if the weeds turned out to be valuable? LOL

Chemical companies want to test. But testing chemical resistant weeds brings different results, maybe , than virgin weeds.

Same with modified plants.

Maybe weeds will be valuable.

Don't be so annoyed with organics. You don't have to be. We are a much more fragile industry than conventional farmers. You have numbers of farmers, which is supposed to give strength, isn't it?. And you invoke permanent changes going on daily through modification which impact upon organics.

I realize I am sometimes saying things you don't want to hear. Pars

[freewheat]

I have a bit of a different take on the nutrient status of organic land. I have rented two different halfs over the years that were not fertilized, and only cropped half and half by the previous farmers. The herbicides were skimped on, especially on wild oat spray.

Granted they were not true organic because of the half arse spraying that went on, but close.

I also this spring bought some land near to me which was farmed the same way with very minimal inputs.

My theory is that the soil has not been utilized to its full potential and has not had a balanced nutrient input regime. What I think happens therefore, and my results have seemed to prove that it may be so, is that for example if the land was fallow and yielded them say 30 bushel wheat, well that 30 bushel wheat has taken out a minimal ammount of nutrients, especially PKS and micros.

When I first take over some of this land, with my normal fertility inputs, and with trying to get a balance there, this type of land produces very well, because the nutrients which have been under-utilized are suddenly happy to partner with the higher N and P rates to be contributers to bountiful crops.

On each of these pieces of land, the same thing has always been occuring for me. They produce like a dang due to these un maximized, un-utilized, and unbalanced nutrients. They produce better often than my longer term "well farmed" land with equal inputs. Ironically, other than lost organic matter from excessive tillage and from summerfallow, this type of land is more like it was broken 20 years ago rather than 70...

Weeds are another issue. Its been years since I have fallowed voluntarily, and I always find it iteresting to see the strange weeds that grow on previously 50-50 land.
Few dandelions, cleavers etc. MANY wild oats, mustards, stinkweeds, etc.

Just my opinion, but it is what I have seen . Give back to this type of soil, and she'll give back to you, I think, at least "here"...

[SASKFARMER3]

Yea last spring bought some that never I mean never had fertilizer. Sprayed ever once and a while with roundup. 24D and seeded to oats or flax. Continuous for four year when i bought it. 1st year so so. Second better by the third its like ours. But got to buy it because of guys who talked down about the land to the guy. Belittled him. Their loss. Yea one guy wants it now, Price is out of his league.

[may-be]

My personal experiance seems to be similar to freewheat. Almost all my land I took on was from older small guys that did not use fert and minimal chem. That land produced bumper crops with less disease issues for a few years. The ones that were half summerfallow and got chemical were very clean. The others were dirtyier. But it seemed like it did not make much difference on my chemical bill. When I took over my dads land I used to get the same bushels per acreon wheat as I do now with half the fertilizer and always number 1. If I used half now I will get half a crop. Yea the nutrient levels were low when I took over this land and now high. But I only put in what is taken out and sometimes less. When my crop adviser looks at my soil tests now, he tells me things look good just keep putting on the same fert incase it does not take to what is in the soil. So it shows I am not utilizeing everything what I am putting in, and the high levels showing on my soil tests are useless because the nutrients are tied up.
Organics is not for me. But I wounder sometimes is there a better way of doing things? Seems like my land is getting more relient on imputs as time goes on.

[JDGreen]

I think this is where the wing nuts preaching the snake oils should make their entrance. Makes me wonder as well...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Kodiak]

My take on this is that yes, the land perhaps seems a bit more reliant on high levels of inputs. But when I remember that the yields we are expecting and getting are 30% or more higher than expectations and yields were just a few years ago, that answers it. We could all go back to input levels of 10 or 20 years ago and get the same results. We reap what we sow!

[dave4441]

Tilled land take some time to move into a zero till operation becuase of the damage done to the soil structure. Saying that, i purchased land that was farmed in a similar fashion to organics. Very, very little spraying and lots of tillage. But, when I did a soil test nutrient levels where down, but OM was the highest of all our land. Primarily becuase of a green manure system of knocking the SMF down once a year with a discer. Still tough land to farm, but payoff will eventually come. I gave up on the stuff and sold it to a cowboy and bought higher accessed land that had been in zero till for a number of years and felt was a better investment in the end.

[Hopperbin]

Myself I never notice much difference in the land from the tilled to no tilled to the weed infested, I have purchased a variety. With proper rotation and nutrients and weed control they all produce the same or OK. Now I would expect an organic producer or Greenpeace to step up to the plate and purchase this land for what it is worth which should according to organics and Greenpeace should be worth more because it is already organic and has about half summerfallow on it, rest was peas so that crop should be off by now or worked under as plowdown. Oh do I want to see Greenpeace farm.

[may-be]

Dave.. Read your reply last night and it has given me a flashback. My land was from the older generation. Grew very good crops, was above the area averages according to crop insurance. Then I went to below average for a few years. This was the time I swiched to zero tillage. Needless to say I was getting discouraged not knowing what the rock was goeing on. Then I had read somewere that on some land but not on all land that goeing zero till you might need extra fertilizer for a few years,then you can cut back. Could this be why we have different experiances? Maybe I would not be as happy today getting the same land today as I have in the past.
Satisfied with my crops now so maybe my pay off is comeing. Only problem is, some off my land is getting hard pan and not letting the roots goe down. So I am goeing to try a chemical that supposed to soften it up. Hope it's not snake oil..lol... A compaction tester will be the judge off that on a few acres to start with.

[dave4441]

Let me guess, BEST.

It will do everything you need it to, fix salt, inoculate pulses, reduce fertilizer, hard pan.

You are right about the nutrient lag in zero till. Takes a few years to get to equilibrium.

We had a bad experiance on newly purchased land, Sencor, lentils and rain. Big downpour after application and our new land that had been farmed half and half pretty much killed the lentils and lighter land that had been in zero till for years had no affect.

[may-be]

Never heard off best.

[AG_guy]

On any given land on one acre by 6 inches deep there are over two million weed seeds waiting to germinate so says the studies. One can manage weeds. the organic land would be extremely healthy and teaming with life which plants thrive on. if one bought the organic land and used minimum in ground fertlizer and proper rates of chemical one would have exceptional land and yields for a long time. The soil is free from man made chemicals , salts and the soil tilth should be really good.

Somebody will buy it and will apply fertilizer and see outstanding yields but year after year more fertilizer will need to be applied to keep yields up, soil will harden, salt levels will rise and disease and pests will get higher. And the soil will become dead.

use the land smartly and wow could it be profitable